WWE Super ShowDown Discussion

[Stanford]

Didn't watch but did he no sell the jackhammer after the pin? It's Bray, he can always talk his way out like Fiend losing interest or something

Yeah, he did. And then he disappeared like a wizard

[improper]

Didn't watch but did he no sell the jackhammer after the pin? It's Bray, he can always talk his way out like Fiend losing interest or something

Can you really blame him? He spent so much time creating this new character and got it wildly over and his reward was to job to a geriatric who can't even go in the ring any more in a two minute match on a show no one cared about. Booking like this is what makes guys check out.

We saw how Ambrose visibly stopped caring after all the BS and then immediately looked like a new man when he went to New Japan. I think we're about to see the same with Bray. Why would you bother giving it your all after this?

[Spens1]

Didn't watch but did he no sell the jackhammer after the pin? It's Bray, he can always talk his way out like Fiend losing interest or something

Can you really blame him? He spent so much time creating this new character and got it wildly over and his reward was to job to a geriatric who can't even go in the ring any more in a two minute match on a show no one cared about. Booking like this is what makes guys check out.

We saw how Ambrose visibly stopped caring after all the BS and then immediately looked like a new man when he went to New Japan. I think we're about to see the same with Bray. Why would you bother giving it your all after this?

If only Lucha underground still existed.

Cult leader Bray or the fiend would have fit perfectly in that universe

Sent from my CPH1877 using RealGM mobile app

[LLJ]

The problem is that many fans keep popping for these old dudes when they come back. Then they turn around and complain that they don't make new stars like the old days...

Goldberg's individual segments were doing huge numbers on Smackdown and he was getting big reactions. I knew Bray was in trouble then. Never mind that people like Goldberg and Undertaker only provide a short term bump at best, and that the WWE should be looking to build their current roster for the sake of their long term business.

The ONE time in the last 6-7 years where the fans actually got behind a current guy over a returning part timer was during Daniel Bryan's heyday, when they completely rejected a returning Batista.

Until fans get behind their current full timers more than the old people, the WWE will continue to default to the old guys again and again.

[The_Brecht]

So they're going to try getting Roman over as a face against a heel Goldberg? Or could they finally pull the trigger on a heel turn by Reigns? They've got me invested to watch Smackdown.

I do think The Fiend can be more effective without the title. The feud with Bryan was really good, but that was it.

[Scott Hall]

Wooooooooow...

I can't believe they spent all this time and energy building up the Fiend getting him over with fans only for him to lose
the Tittle to a part timer at a Big event "before" Wrestlemania during the day time in North America for a PPV nobody really
cared about or was interested in the first place. Also after taking all that punishment against Rollins in the Cell he loses
to a some half assed spears and the worst Jack Hammer ever.

When this match was announced this never even crossed my mind as a possibility. I thought the Saudis requested Goldberg
and it was just a legend for Wyatt to squash for some momentum going into Wrestlemania...

With that said after thinking about it I like it...

- Wyatt vs. Reigns for the tittle at WM did nothing for me
- Goldberg is just being used as a pawn they know smarks would cheer the Fiend over Reigns
- Now Smarks hate Goldberg being champ so bad they might actually cheer and pop for Reigns to beat him
- Goldberg vs. Reigns and the battle of the spears is somewhat of a dream match and looks good on paper although it will suck
- Having Reigns face Goldberg will make his WM match nice and short which is good because long Reigns matches are boring
- Wyatts spot in the company is cemented now the Fiend is over and doesn't need the belt he's a top guy and big star
- Losing the belt to Reigns who smarks hate at WM does nothing for him and really isn't a WM moment
- This created a lot of buzz people are talking about it "controversy creates cash" WM had no real buzz before this
- Not interested in another Cena vs. Wyatt WM match but Hogan hinted at being involved and him destroying both could
be big for him

Surprisingly I liked this show and I wasn't sure if I was gonna watch it. Loved the entrances and fireworks and some
of the matches actually pleasantly surprised me for a change.

[Coach Smiley]

Never been a fan of Wyatt but even I know this is counter productive

Remember when wwf used to call wcw wheel chair wrestling? for the last 10 years this is what wwe has been

[improper]

Honestly, the thing with Wyatt bothers me even less than the way they did Ricochet dirty. We knew Wyatt versus Goldberg was gonna suck, but it was super disappointing to me that they couldn't even be bothered to give Ricochet a decent Lesnar match after building him up. Everyone knew he was going to lose, but at least make him look a little good in defeat. It's so stupid the way they cannibalize their full time talent to feed guys who wrestle a couple of times a year.

[Scott Hall]

Honestly, the thing with Wyatt bothers me even less than the way they did Ricochet dirty. We knew Wyatt versus Goldberg was gonna suck, but it was super disappointing to me that they couldn't even be bothered to give Ricochet a decent Lesnar match after building him up. Everyone knew he was going to lose, but at least make him look a little good in defeat. It's so stupid the way they cannibalize their full time talent to feed guys who wrestle a couple of times a year.

I don't know they've always had guys that are attractions and hard to beat whether it was Bruno, Andre, Hogan or Taker.
Brock being a part timer doesn't bother me much and him being that tough video game boss attraction doesn't bother me.

Andre the Giant wasn't around every week and he barely ever lost and if he had competitive matches with guys like
Koko B. Ware it would take away from his aura. Last year Lesnar had a competitive match with Balor who's now a mid card
guy in NXT lost to Rollins at WM in a curtain jerker match and then lost to Rollins again at Summerslam. And what did
it accomplish? Rollins didn't get over and ended up having to turn heel shortly after.

Brock has actually lost a little to much in recent years and they've had to build him up again by squashing Kofi, Mysterio,
half the roster in the Rumble and now Ricochet. I'd say it's most likely Drew McIntyre is going over at WM so if a little
guy who's still young is having a competitive match with Brock it wouldn't be surprising at all if Drew ends up beating him.

As for Ricchocet I don't think it hurts him at all... a year ago he was called up on the roster tag-teaming with Black
and not having much direction he had a solid feud with AJ Styles and now the company has enough confidence to
book him in high profile match against their biggest meal ticket in a huge stadium show for the tittle. A lot of guys
would take that.

[LLJ]

Ricochet getting squashed by Lesnar shows that they view him as very very far from the title picture at the moment, if ever. Even Balor, a certified midcarder in the WWE's eyes, put up a decent fight against Lesnar.

[Scott Hall]

Ricochet was a U.S. Champ in his rookie main roster year that's pretty good. Brock gets a much needed squash
to continue to look strong before he loses again to Drew and Ricochet gets a world tittle match at a Stadium
show even if he was just used as fodder I don't think it hurts him. How many guys get a high profile match with
AJ Styles at SummerSlam 6 months in? Get a U.S. tittle run? a Brock match at a Stadium show? Hell Lashley
would kill for all that especially the Brock match.

[improper]

I don't know they've always had guys that are attractions and hard to beat whether it was Bruno, Andre, Hogan or Taker.
Brock being a part timer doesn't bother me much and him being that tough video game boss attraction doesn't bother me.

Andre the Giant wasn't around every week and he barely ever lost and if he had competitive matches with guys like
Koko B. Ware it would take away from his aura. Last year Lesnar had a competitive match with Balor who's now a mid card
guy in NXT lost to Rollins at WM in a curtain jerker match and then lost to Rollins again at Summerslam. And what did
it accomplish? Rollins didn't get over and ended up having to turn heel shortly after.

Brock has actually lost a little to much in recent years and they've had to build him up again by squashing Kofi, Mysterio,
half the roster in the Rumble and now Ricochet. I'd say it's most likely Drew McIntyre is going over at WM so if a little
guy who's still young is having a competitive match with Brock it wouldn't be surprising at all if Drew ends up beating him.

As for Ricchocet I don't think it hurts him at all... a year ago he was called up on the roster tag-teaming with Black
and not having much direction he had a solid feud with AJ Styles and now the company has enough confidence to
book him in high profile match against their biggest meal ticket in a huge stadium show for the tittle. A lot of guys
would take that.

Again, I'm not complaining that Ricochet lost. Literally everyone knew he was losing that match. But him getting in zero offense when he just won a number one contender match is inexcusable. They should have done the standard Brock match. He tosses Ricochet around for a few minutes before Ricochet turns the tables and gets in some offense and some nice hope spots before Brock regains the advantage and puts him away. If it ain't broke...

[Scott Hall]

I don't know they've always had guys that are attractions and hard to beat whether it was Bruno, Andre, Hogan or Taker.
Brock being a part timer doesn't bother me much and him being that tough video game boss attraction doesn't bother me.

Andre the Giant wasn't around every week and he barely ever lost and if he had competitive matches with guys like
Koko B. Ware it would take away from his aura. Last year Lesnar had a competitive match with Balor who's now a mid card
guy in NXT lost to Rollins at WM in a curtain jerker match and then lost to Rollins again at Summerslam. And what did
it accomplish? Rollins didn't get over and ended up having to turn heel shortly after.

Brock has actually lost a little to much in recent years and they've had to build him up again by squashing Kofi, Mysterio,
half the roster in the Rumble and now Ricochet. I'd say it's most likely Drew McIntyre is going over at WM so if a little
guy who's still young is having a competitive match with Brock it wouldn't be surprising at all if Drew ends up beating him.

As for Ricchocet I don't think it hurts him at all... a year ago he was called up on the roster tag-teaming with Black
and not having much direction he had a solid feud with AJ Styles and now the company has enough confidence to
book him in high profile match against their biggest meal ticket in a huge stadium show for the tittle. A lot of guys
would take that.

Again, I'm not complaining that Ricochet lost. Literally everyone knew he was losing that match. But him getting in zero offense when he just won a number one contender match is inexcusable. They should have done the standard Brock match. He tosses Ricochet around for a few minutes before Ricochet turns the tables and gets in some offense and some nice hope spots before Brock regains the advantage and puts him away. If it ain't broke...

In the long run does it even matter? The main goal was to book Brock as strong as possible before he loses again
to Drew. Ricochet having a competitive match or mounting some offense makes Brock look a little weak and vulnerable
before his showdown with Drew. I'm sure Ricochet will face him again down the line since he's already entrenched as
a solid upper card guy and Heyman likes him.

[LLJ]

Ricochet was a U.S. Champ in his rookie main roster year that's pretty good. Brock gets a much needed squash
to continue to look strong before he loses again to Drew and Ricochet gets a world tittle match at a Stadium
show even if he was just used as fodder I don't think it hurts him. How many guys get a high profile match with
AJ Styles at SummerSlam 6 months in? Get a U.S. tittle run? a Brock match at a Stadium show? Hell Lashley
would kill for all that especially the Brock match.

Ricochet is OK but there are tiers, and he's never been presented on a level of AJ, Bryan or even Balor (who was Universal Champion once and has scored wins over many top guys in the past).

They should never have put him in this match against Brock really. I would have put someone in there with Brock who has no upside or someone they simply won't ever invest in. Ricochet is too young to start treating like a complete scrub. I get he needs to "work his way up" the kayfabe tier ladder, but the guy should be losing in ways that make him look competitive, not a complete non factor.

Speaking of tiers, I knew Goldberg was a threat because the guy has only lost like 4, maybe 5 times total in the WWE. He's not a guy they have lose lightly. He beat Brock Lesnar in 1 minute just 3 and a half years ago! If someone beats Goldberg, then they have to be really really really high on them, like LEGEND tier, and I was never convinced they thought of The Fiend as anything more than a temporary monster at best.

So when the match with Goldberg was announced, I was like "Uh-oh." And then when the rumor sheets were saying the main event was changed I was like "Of course. Typical Vince."

[Scott Hall]

Ricochet was a U.S. Champ in his rookie main roster year that's pretty good. Brock gets a much needed squash
to continue to look strong before he loses again to Drew and Ricochet gets a world tittle match at a Stadium
show even if he was just used as fodder I don't think it hurts him. How many guys get a high profile match with
AJ Styles at SummerSlam 6 months in? Get a U.S. tittle run? a Brock match at a Stadium show? Hell Lashley
would kill for all that especially the Brock match.

Ricochet is OK but there are tiers, and he's never been presented on a level of AJ, Bryan or even Balor (who was Universal Champion once and has scored wins over many top guys in the past).

They should never have put him in this match against Brock really. I would have put someone in there with Brock who has no upside or someone they simply won't ever invest in. Ricochet is too young to start treating like a complete scrub. I get he needs to "work his way up" the kayfabe tier ladder, but the guy should be losing in ways that make him look competitive, not a complete non factor.

Speaking of tiers, I knew Goldberg was a threat because the guy has only lost like 4, maybe 5 times total in the WWE. He's not a guy they have lose lightly. He beat Brock Lesnar in 1 minute just 3 and a half years ago! If someone beats Goldberg, then they have to be really really really high on them, like LEGEND tier, and I was never convinced they thought of The Fiend as anything more than a temporary monster at best.

So when the match with Goldberg was announced, I was like "Uh-oh." And then when the rumor sheets were saying the main event was changed I was like "Of course. Typical Vince."

Ricochet is considered a main roster rookie so when Brock is having competitive matches with guys like AJ, Daniel
Bryan and Balor those guys are ex World Champions. Ricochet also was on Team RAW at Survivor Series which means
they look at him like a top 5 guy (excluding the champ and challenger for the tittle) on the brand that's pretty good.

When they announced the match I thought wow thats cool for Ricochet to be in a spot like that to end his rookie
year on the main roster. Does the wrestling fan in me wish to see a more competitive match? yeah but I get the
psychology of the booking as well. Plus those PPV's are long enough and I'm not gonna complain about a match being
short. Rey Mysterio got squashed by him too did it really hurt him? Kofi a world champ got squashed by Brock so does
it make Ricochet who's portrayed as a youngster look bad to join the club? From a pay standpoint he probably gets
a nice bonus working a match like that as opposed to working the preshow or a generic tag match.

As for the Fiend I think their plan was Reigns beats him this entire time as the baby face does the classic WM chase
where the heel champ almost always historically loses. I believe Goldberg was just a request by the Saudis like usual
and was gonna put over Wyatt...

Then Goldberg appeared on Smackdown and really drew a strong rating and the Youtube video got a lot of hits and
they started second guessing how they should book Mania. They also did the angle with Hogan on Smackdown and
teased some kind of confrontation at WM.

What's better for the Fiend to lose to Reigns at WM or beat Cena who could possibly have Hogan in his corner and
who he could beat up after that's quite a WM moment to beat up those 2 as opposed to jobbing to Reigns.

As for Reigns their entire goal is to get him over AGAIN and beating Wyatt who fans like would cause more groans
and boos. If he beats Goldberg nobody will complain because they know Goldberg is part time and old plus now
he has all the heat from the smarks that are pissed he's the champ and has crappy matches and ended the Fiends run.
So people might actually be happy to see Reigns win for once although it's entirely possible the fans boo both of them
ala WM 20.

A young Undertaker beat Hogan for the Tittle at Survivor Series 1991 and then dropped it back 48 hours later at
the This Tuesday in Texas special on PPV and he turned out ok. These types of characters really don't need the belt
and now once they suck out all the money and juice from Goldberg and Cena and possibly Hogan they can save
Reigns vs. Fiend till SummerSlam if need be.

The most interesting thing to me is how they short term try to recover the damage the Fiend has suffered from
this bad loss. I'm hoping this adds a new layer to his character where instead of the guy that takes a crazy amount
of damage and comes back he becomes more vicious and is the one that hands out all the damage most of the time.
Also now we've seen him take crazy amounts of damage from Rollins in the Cell and now lose from a few spears and
the worst jack hammer ever so it makes him more unpredictable.

[LLJ]

As far as I can recall, Mysterio did pretty well against Brock. I mean yeah Mysterio did use weapons and had his son help, but it wasn't really a squash, there was a moment when the crowd thought Mysterio had a chance.

But again, Mysterio is also still a legend. A weaker one in kayfabe, but still a legend. So he gets some offense in.

I do think Kofi getting squashed was bad though.

[heatwillbeback]

I don't mind Fiend losing.

I do mind that the WWE believes we don't have eyes and ignores that Goldberg put on the worst recent match in history vs. Undertaker. Dude legitimately has nothing left to offer.

[improper]

I don't mind Fiend losing.

I do mind that the WWE believes we don't have eyes and ignores that Goldberg put on the worst recent match in history vs. Undertaker. Dude legitimately has nothing left to offer.

To be fair, that was as much on Taker as Goldberg. They are both washed.

[jakecronus8]

I don't mind Fiend losing.

I do mind that the WWE believes we don't have eyes and ignores that Goldberg put on the worst recent match in history vs. Undertaker. Dude legitimately has nothing left to offer.

I agree with all of this. Fiend never should have won the title. You can still have him wrestle for it and destroy whoever is champ then just have him leave. I digress

Too many people are defending this by pulling out the “what about Jericho in Aew?” line. Can’t help but laugh as Jericho is and always has been 100x the worker Goldberg ever was and at 49 can still go. If you’re champ can’t work a real match for 5 minutes, it’s just embarrassing to himself and the company

[improper]

I agree with all of this. Fiend never should have won the title. You can still have him wrestle for it and destroy whoever is champ then just have him leave. I digress

Too many people are defending this by pulling out the “what about Jericho in Aew?” line. Can’t help but laugh as Jericho is and always has been 100x the worker Goldberg ever was and at 49 can still go. If you’re champ can’t work a real match for 5 minutes, it’s just embarrassing to himself and the company

Beyond that, AEW is an upstart company and giving a legend like Jericho a strong first title reign helps solidify their company and makes their title look like it matters.

As a side note, Brock squashing a guy who just won a number one contender match doesn't make the WWE title feel significant. If anything, these cheap, short matches only diminish the title because it makes the world title matches feel like they don't matter.