Im just gonna say it...Raptors look better with Calderon

[Death Knight]

He might be tryna say the Raptors look better while Calderon is running the point, As a team we look better with both point guards. Well no ****, Calderon/Dixon or TJ/Calderon.


I might be givin the calderclone too much credit.

You are giving him too much credit.

im sure this thread will stir up alot of "Jose vs TJ" rants, but that's honestly not my intent....

When his/her first sentence is the above..........you know it's bs.

[andyo]

-= original quote snipped =-



i'm sure the offense shooting 37.5% is your idea of smooth

Wow, was that necessary? Seems to me like your condemning his play

Anyways it's evident that we miss Ford, especially his penetration but I don't see any reason how Calderon has affected our offense negatively, in terms of our shooting %. Although I'd really like to see more movement in the offense especially from one of our 2 or 3 guards off the ball. We're not going to win playing high screen and roll the entire game...with T.J, we got a bit of iso in there but Jose rarely calls this play, I'd like to see him be more aggressive on his penetration and shoot more often...especially when Bosh is not on the floor.

[rdtx2005]

Wow, was that necessary? Seems to me like your condemning his play

"tongue in cheek" comment.. read it up.

Anyways it's evident that we miss Ford, especially his penetration but I don't see any reason how Calderon has affected our offense negatively, in terms of our shooting %.

The offense has sputtered during the West Coast trip.. and I don't think it's a coincidence.. 92ppg vs 99ppg..

Calderon may make the 'offense' look smoother.. but you can't say it's more efficient.

Although I'd really like to see more movement in the offense especially from one of our 2 or 3 guards off the ball. We're not going to win playing high screen and roll the entire game...with T.J, we got a bit of iso in there but Jose rarely calls this play, I'd like to see him be more aggressive on his penetration and shoot more often...especially when Bosh is not on the floor.

if Jose will be more aggressive, it will do him and the Raptors a lot of good.

[James699]

Tj is better though. Don't forget Calderon is the best backup PG, not a starter. TJ is far more better.

[Ackshun]

-= original quote snipped =-



TJ in 35 minutes would be considered an All Star PG in the East. No question about it.

but. only. in the east.

lol damn that western conference.

[Sweetest-Prince]

-= original quote snipped =-



but. only. in the east.

lol damn that western conference.

PLAYA PLS!

TJ is so good that not only would he be an all star in the NBA but in the NFL, MLB, NHL, and every other sports league there is out there as well.

[andyo]

-= original quote snipped =-

"tongue in cheek" comment.. read it up. "

None the less, I'm assuming there was a bit of truth in that statement and I found that unnecessary, especially since I've noticed over the holiday, when I've been reading the board a lot more often that you seem to condemn Calderon a lot..is it just general dislike? I mean, I don't recall you doing that to any extent with T.J, in fact, most of the time it seems like you condemn Calderon and defend Ford. I don't get the impression you are one of our immature posters either....

-= original quote snipped =-
The offense has sputtered during the West Coast trip.. and I don't think it's a coincidence.. 92ppg vs 99ppg..

Calderon may make the 'offense' look smoother.. but you can't say it's more efficient.

Well for one thing...it's an unfair assessment considering we are playing the toughest stretch of games this season, in my opinion. I agree with your analysis on Calderon...he's been a lot more passive this year in respect to his penetration then I would like but I don't think you can fault the team's offense as a result of Calderon's play. It's true he plays high screen and roll a lot, and doesn't run iso as much as Ford, but in hindsight, that's virtually the majority of the plays we run when T.J is in the lineup anyways. The only difference, really, is we don't run iso as much with Calderon, which I guess can be somewhat credited to your perception of our more "inefficient" offense. Calderon's been playing at an extremely high level in my opinion but I can tell your going to disagree and bring up his defense and "inefficient" team offense concept. I've elaborated on why I find this as a misconception(I find him to be a lot better then people portray him as) but this stereotype will continue regardless. Ultimately, I don't see Calderon's ability to run the offense as a hit on our field goal % and point production. You referred to this 92ppg vs 99 ppg stat during the west coast trip but :

1) It's an unfair assessment due to the stretch of games we are playing, toughest this year I'd say.
2) A lot of those inefficiencies can be credited to Dixon's/D-Mart's time on the floor in my opinion.
3) We seem to reset a lot more when we are stagnant or when we don't have advantages on half court sets/fast breaks so we shoot a lot later in the shot clock and thus put up less points.

It's true that Jose is a lot more passive then I would like, but nonetheless, he's very efficient when he does shoot/penetrate.... but I can't believe your putting him at fault for this team's offensive efficiency. And why bring up those PPG stats anyways? That's not a fair assessment, Calderon and Ford in the lineup vs. Calderon and Dixon/D-Mart? I could do the same thing and bring up an assist/T.O stat with Calderon vs Ford but that wouldn't do either of us any justice, and it would prove pointless anyways.
Yes, we miss Ford a lot but I don't see any reason you would fault Calderon to this extent, not just in this post either..I mean he was considered our back-up point guard at one point, if anything, we should be fortunate and like I said, I don't get the Ford vs Jose immaturity perception from you, so why start it?

[Death Knight]

Tj is better though. Don't forget Calderon is the best backup PG, not a starter. TJ is far more better.

I don't know. I mean............Jameer Nelson is a starting pg. Anthony Johnson is a starting pg. Jason Williams is a starting pg. James699 is a starting pg. etc.................

[rdtx2005]

None the less, I'm assuming there was a bit of truth in that statement and I found that unnecessary, especially since I've noticed over the holiday, when I've been reading the board a lot more often that you seem to condemn Calderon a lot..is it just general dislike? I mean, I don't recall you doing that to any extent with T.J, in fact, most of the time it seems like you condemn Calderon and defend Ford. I don't get the impression you are one of our immature posters either....

It's all fine criticism.. Jose fans seem to have a field day whenever TJ makes or doesn't make mistakes and blame the worlds problems on him.

I attack the extremists that bash TJ Ford. That is all. There is a difference between defending TJ from being called "sour grapes", "Ballhog" etc.. vs. Calderon's decision to reset the offense on a break.

The thing I have been irking on Calderon has been the same thing throughout this year. he needs to attack the basket to keep the other team's defense honest. He did it last year, he is doing it less this year.

Well for one thing...it's an unfair assessment considering we are playing the toughest stretch of games this season, in my opinion. I agree with your analysis on Calderon...he's been a lot more passive this year in respect to his penetration then I would like but I don't think you can fault the team's offense as a result of Calderon's play.

The team's offense is the result of the PG leading the charge. There is a belief on this forum that Calderon 'runs' the team more 'efficiently' and 'smoothly'.. but from this West Coast trip, it has only shown that is not the case. Would we have been better with both TJ/Jose together? Absolutely.

Calderon's been playing at an extremely high level in my opinion but I can tell your going to disagree and bring up his defense and "inefficient" team offense concept.

Calderon has put up great 'numbers', but you can't deny that he is still a liability on defense and opposing PGs have a field day with him.

It's true that Jose is a lot more passive then I would like, but nonetheless, he's very efficient when he does shoot/penetrate.... but I can't believe your putting him at fault for this team's offensive efficiency.

People have no problem blaming TJ Ford for the team's efficiencies... that is one of my points i'm getting across. You are another example of how people find every excuse in the book for Jose Calderon

And why bring up those PPG stats anyways? That's not a fair assessment, Calderon and Ford in the lineup vs. Calderon and Dixon/D-Mart? I could do the same thing and bring up an assist/T.O stat with Calderon vs Ford but that wouldn't do either of us any justice, and it would prove pointless anyways.

Why isn't it a fair assessment? When TJ went for 30+pts against the Celtics early this year.. everyone bashed him about him not running the offense.. why can't people accept criticism of Calderon? The team on the West Coast trip ran offense poorly. Other than 3 games where the team shot well, the team shot less than 40%..Really now..

the Ast/TO stat just proves that Calderon is more passive than usual. He is too 'safe' with the ball.

Yes, we miss Ford a lot but I don't see any reason you would fault Calderon to this extent, not just in this post either..I mean he was considered our back-up point guard at one point, if anything, we should be fortunate and like I said, I don't get the Ford vs Jose immaturity perception from you, so why start it?

If we can't fault Calderon, who do we fault? Seems like Calderon always gets a "get out of jail FREE" card everytime we lose.

[KG1585]

the Ast/TO stat just proves that Calderon is more passive than usual. He is too 'safe' with the ball.

I agree with most of what you said. TJ was our best player before he got injured, and people were attacking him unfairly, just as you continue to attack Jose unfairly. You are no different than the people that were attacking TJ at the beginning of the season.

The Calderon being passive is not a fair comment. He is second in Assists per 40 minutes, and has been averaging almost 10 assists per game as a starter. You don't average 10 assists per game by being passive.

[rdtx2005]

I agree with most of what you said. TJ was our best player before he got injured, and people were attacking him unfairly, just as you continue to attack Jose unfairly. You are no different than the people that were attacking TJ at the beginning of the season.

I don't see how I'm attacking Jose unfairly.. I have watched the games.. I have seen numerous times where Jose is on a 3 on 2 break only to reset the offense. I have a valid argument

The Calderon being passive is not a fair comment. He is second in Assists per 40 minutes, and has been averaging almost 10 assists per game as a starter. You don't average 10 assists per game by being passive.

If you rely on your shooters to get your Assists you can. I don't want to argue this point 'til the cows come home.

[raptor21_85]

raptors look better when all the team healthy

[andyo]

rdtx2005, I'm appreciate the fact you acknowledged that you were bashing Calderon but I never see you bash Ford to any extent but instead your always defending him. Why don't you the same with Calderon...there are Calderon haters on this board as well.

Don't you think criticizing Calderon puts you in the same boat as those Ford haters? I mean, sure, some criticism is welcomed but it's different with you...your doing it all the time with only Calderon and the fact your not approaching Ford with the same mentality like you do with Calderon shows that your not any better then those Ford haters. Like I said, I respect your opinion and to be honest, I more or less agree with it...I just don't like how your approach to Calderon vs Ford in respect to criticism.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, your PPG stats mean nothing, take into account these 3 items:

1) It's an unfair assessment due to the stretch of games we are playing, toughest this year I'd say.
2) A lot of those inefficiencies can be credited to Dixon's/D-Mart's time on the floor in my opinion.
3) We seem to reset a lot more when we are stagnant or when we don't have advantages on half court sets/fast breaks so we shoot a lot later in the shot clock and thus put up less points.

Also, his assist turnover ratio doesn't show his passiveness in my opinion. I think what might show his passiveness is the game itself, shot attempts in crunch time and in hindsight, stats aside, we can see he's passive by watching the game... but the Assist/T.O stat doesn't prove it. The reason I referred to this was to show the flaw in your analysis when using your PPG stat.

Finally I'd like to add that I'm not making excuses for Calderon... if you read my earlier posts I mentioned his flaws in respect to his passiveness but to say that the entire offense's inefficiencies are a result of Calderon is unfair, refer to the points I made above and my previous post as to why.

[Death Knight]

-= original quote snipped =-



If you rely on your shooters to get your Assists you can. I don't want to argue this point 'til the cows come home.

Let me make a valid point and see if you are willing to accept it.....

Calderon is a passer, because he is a pg and is a pass 1st pg at that. What's wrong with a pg passing it to open shooters? If those shooters are being guarded tightly and he still forces the pass, then you can make an argument. There is a reason why someone like Iverson who averages 7-8+ assists still isn't considered a pg. He isn't a passer and only makes passes out of necessity because he is either in trouble or is forced to pass it. A true passing pg doesn't pass out of necessity, he just makes the right passes. So there is nothing wrong with how Calderon distributes/passes the ball amongst the team.

I have made it pretty clear where I stand as far as Calderon being more aggressive. He does need to be more aggressive, but to discredit his passing ability or how the way Calderon shares and distributes the ball is unjust.

[TheRaptor!]

On the raptors board, you never talk **** about Bosh and Calderon.

These guys here are sexually attracted to those 2 guys and defends them with emotions too.

Calderon runs the team's offence smoother and more efficient. I'll give you that. But TJ is the type of point guard who is a playmaker and has what it takes to take over a game.

The bash on Calderon and the whole teams offensive production is nonsense. TJ and Calderon is obviously going to be better then Calderon and Dixon.

Dixon is the reason for the drop off on the teams total point per game, not Jose's fault. Jose cannot have the production of 2 good point guards by himself, even if he plays 48 minutes a night.

Why can't more fans be like me? These guys can't take criticism, Bargnani is my favourite player, hes been playin like **** but you don't see me get all offended when hes being called bustnani.

[Death Knight]

On the raptors board, you never talk **** about Bosh and Calderon.

These guys here are sexually attracted to those 2 guys and defends them with emotions too.

Calderon runs the team's offence smoother and more efficient. I'll give you that. But TJ is the type of point guard who is a playmaker and has what it takes to take over a game.

The bash on Calderon and the whole teams offensive production is nonsense. TJ and Calderon is obviously going to be better then Calderon and Dixon.

Dixon is the reason for the drop off on the teams total point per game, not Jose's fault. Jose cannot have the production of 2 good point guards by himself, even if he plays 48 minutes a night.

Why can't more fans be like me? These guys can't take criticism, Bargnani is my favourite player, hes been playin like **** but you don't see me get all offended when hes being called bustnani.

TJ and Jose are also better than TJ and Dixon. Unfortunately, Jose has been healthier, so we don't get to see TJ play without Jose as much.

This team needs both pg because it provides 48 mins of quality pg play.

[TheRaptor!]

-= original quote snipped =-



TJ and Jose are also better than TJ and Dixon. Unfortunately, Jose has been healthier, so we don't get to see TJ play without Jose as much.

This team needs both pg because it provides 48 mins of quality pg play.

Pretty much sums it up.

[gcsw]

-= original quote snipped =-



Why does it have to be one over the other?

Why does it have to be TJ against Jose?

Why can't people understand that the team runs well with Jose and runs well with TJ, neither is perfect and both have things in their game that they need to improve on. Everyone has something to say when Jose has a solid game.

What about the fact that we're scoring less since TJ went down?

Why have both when packaging TJ in a trade can give us that SF that we so desperately need and another backup PG instead of Dmart? That is what we need to improve our roster.

Our winning record when TJ does not play PROVES that we don't need him at all. The SF and backup PG we will get in return will do much more good than splitting minutes between Jose and TJ, which is a complete waste of efficient resources.

[gcsw]

-= original quote snipped =-



TJ and Jose are also better than TJ and Dixon. Unfortunately, Jose has been healthier, so we don't get to see TJ play without Jose as much.

This team needs both pg because it provides 48 mins of quality pg play.

By packaging TJ, we will get 80 min of quality min at PG(40) and SF(40).

[Death Knight]

It's all fine criticism.. Jose fans seem to have a field day whenever TJ makes or doesn't make mistakes and blame the worlds problems on him.

Aside from those stupid threads (ie. sour demeanour, etc...), some of the criticism about TJ are just fine and justified as well. Try to acknowledge the justified criticism sometimes instead of always focusing on the unjustified ones regarding TJ.

By packaging TJ, we will get 80 min of quality min at PG(40) and SF(40).

I'd like to see how the Raptors do in the playoffs this season before making any sort of decisions. The Raptors already brought in Delfino, Kapono, and Moon. And don't forget about Garbo. TJ should be back in a short bit I hope.