RealGM

tecumseh18 wrote:

sbsat wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:
I know, I am on it. Read my post again.

I read your post the fact there is a wailist suggests the tickets are already sold no matter if youre from the north east south west. People buy and hold the tickets they don’t necessarily show up for games

Since I cancelled online over a month ago (after >10 seasons), I've received four e-mails from my MLSE agent, none of which I've responded to. Here's this morning's missive.

Hi [tecumseh18],

Hope you’re well.

I’m following up on our emails below as I wanted to outline your options before you outrightly cancelled your membership.

Please let me know when you’re free to chat.

Thanks ...

This same guy earlier told me that they have waitlist of 10,000. But they clearly have a retention policy. As someone who resold a many Raptors tickets through Ticketmaster over the years, I can't believe they are finding it that easy to replace SSH suckers like me in this era of Raptorball.

I cancelled and didn't get any outreach on retention. Lots of people priced out i'm sure but theres a lot of money floating around and seemingly a lack of stuff to do in toronto.

hype_2004 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:We're a 25 win team. So, I'd have to question the the understanding of value for the individuals buying this product. As long as they find people dumb enough to pay, so be it.

Besides, if we keep the pick we're probably a sub 30 win team next year. Doing the exact same thing we did this year. Playing kids to keep SA from taking the pick.

See my previous post regarding the market and demographics the Raptors upper management are trying to cater to and you'll find your answer.

When the argument is you're long term fanbase is fleeing and you hope to replace them with tourists, I don't know.

Maybe they sell the seats, but they'll kill the atmosphere in the process. Either way, I doubt it stops the erosion we already see. It's a bad product at this price imo.

They're asking 50 win team prices, while providing a 25 win team product.

After I dumped my seasons seats, I began buying tickets from a few season seat holders to help them cover their costs.

Used to be that I would need to advance purchase the Raps games I wanted in October. What my guys didn't set aside for themselves was gone by November/December.

This past season, I didn't buy any tickets until mid-December. My guys were posting games for sale on Ticketmaster all season and they were largely unsold up until gameday - when they'd drop prices.

Anyone who comes in new will discover the Ticketmaster resale market isn't what it used to be when the Raptors were a perennial playoff team.

You can do okay if you sell the premium games (weekends, LAL, GS etc) and go to the games against the non premium opponents. The big games still sell well and the cheapest games are easy to flip, but you take a big hit on the high tiers just below the top tier. They had teams like MIL, MIA, MEM priced really aggressively. But you don't get seasons to make money though. You really need to like the experience.

The value is horrendous, like most things in the city. If I wanted to feel like a wallet wearing a cap, I'd just go to Vegas. I haven't attended live big four sports in Toronto in well over a decade. Instead, I'm roadtripping to every OHL area to pay $30 to sit close enough that the head coach's ass is pressed against the glass right in front of me. I'm happy to give these teams my cash and stay in their cities, eat at their restaurants, and stay in their hotels. The tasteless and self-conscious can stay here for street cred.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

hype_2004 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:We're a 25 win team. So, I'd have to question the the understanding of value for the individuals buying this product. As long as they find people dumb enough to pay, so be it.

Besides, if we keep the pick we're probably a sub 30 win team next year. Doing the exact same thing we did this year. Playing kids to keep SA from taking the pick.

See my previous post regarding the market and demographics the Raptors upper management are trying to cater to and you'll find your answer.

When the argument is you're long term fanbase is fleeing and you hope to replace them with tourists, I don't know.

Maybe they sell the seats, but they'll kill the atmosphere in the process. Either way, I doubt it stops the erosion we already see. It's a bad product at this price imo.

They're asking 50 win team prices, while providing a 25 win team product.

30 plus million foreign tourists visit every year more than enough to fill seats, Toronto is the Canadian New York just go to any damn Knicks game filled with corporate suits and Tourists with a few nutjob fans in the "cheap" seats, that's what Toronto has become. Likewise the suits are MLSE and RoBeTel gives a crap about any atmosphere these greedy bastards only care about the profit margins and that's their bottomline like any business.

Duffman100 wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:
Suppose there is a level of management above Masai (not Larry T), who is more knowledgeable about the business of entertainment / consessions etc, it will still be Masai who sets the ticket prices (based on his own team's research of market conditions and team's projected performance) then submit to his superiors for approval.

At the end of the day ticket prices are set partly due to market demand, brand loyalty, and market size, AS WELL AS the projected on-court performance. The management above Masai wouldn't be so hands on to research market demand, brand loyalty, and market size, and certainly wouldn't know a thing about projected on-court performance.

Obviously, Masai isn't going to admit at a PR that he hiked ticket prices despite a subpar projected on-court performance. He has a public image to upkeep, and he doesn't need to rationalize to the public how he arrived at the price hike due to market demand, brand loyalty, and market size outweighing subpar projected on-court performance.

Do you really feel comfortable that you know what you're talking about here?

I'm not sure of this guys actual job, but I'm betting he has a big say in it, along with Pelley.

https://assets-global.website-files.com/5e165d996f65e32d48f125a5/61e093a20e967933fafeec62_Tom%20McDonald%20Headshot%20for%20Website-p-500.jpeg

https://www.mlse.com/our-company/leaders-at-mlse

Anything to take a shot at Masai.

Make no bones about it Larry T has final say in any business decisions including ticket pricing, if you have complaints about ticket prices email him directly and tell him it's unfair for the poor souls that barely make ends meet to go to Raptors home games due to inflation with rising rent, services and food prices

hype_2004 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

hype_2004 wrote:
See my previous post regarding the market and demographics the Raptors upper management are trying to cater to and you'll find your answer.

When the argument is you're long term fanbase is fleeing and you hope to replace them with tourists, I don't know.

Maybe they sell the seats, but they'll kill the atmosphere in the process. Either way, I doubt it stops the erosion we already see. It's a bad product at this price imo.

They're asking 50 win team prices, while providing a 25 win team product.

30 plus million foreign tourists visit every year more than enough to fill seats, Toronto is the Canadian New York just go to any damn Knicks game filled with corporate suits and Tourists with a few nutjob fans in the "cheap" seats, that's what Toronto has become. Likewise the suits are MLSE and RoBeTel gives a crap about any atmosphere these greedy bastards only care about the profit margins and that's their bottomline like any business.

Except MSG is world famous, I really doubt that the team could subsist on nothing but tourists paying for games. Like who TF is gonna want to go to toronto, in the winter, to watch the raptors lol. Take a step back friend.

The last game I went to was ring night vs the Pels. I'm good forever.

I save my sports dollars for NFL games in Europe... since it's a whole weekend of fun, with a Super Bowl vibe around the cities, and not just 3 hours with a bunch of suits.

ElClásico last weekend was €600 for a seat up top.... insanity! You can head down to the stadium and enjoy the pregame festivities and then just watch from a bar outside the stadium for the cost of a burger and a few beers. Then enjoy the festivities afterwards.

Even if you have the disposable means, it's not making sense to spend that kind of money regularly. So many other cool things to waste money on that last more than a few hours.

I think back to the dozens and dozens of live sporting events that I have been to, there are really only a handful of "holy crap, I'm glad I was there!"... the biggest one being the Bautista bat flip night at SkyDome against the Rangers. That was a wild and fun atmosphere getting showered with 500 level beers. The other was sitting in the 500 level when Damon beat Jordan... Tickets were like $5!

I'm sure the Kawhi shot was epic... but when I looked at prices to attend at the time... uh no... and I don't regret it.

OakleyDokely wrote:But you don't get seasons to make money though. You really need to like the experience.

That’s true. But I know a whole bunch of seat holders who have been making a decent profit off their Raptor tickets for the last five years while attending just one or two games themselves.

After a decade of sellouts, the Raptors had unsold seats for many games last year. It will be interesting to see how many people bail if or when they start losing money.

I don’t mind paying high prices for sporting events but it has to be commensurate with the importance of the game. For things like soccer, the Olympics, it’s once every 4 years or 1-2 game elimination formats so the scarcity and high stakes justify the premium on ticket prices. However, a family of 4 paying over $1k for tickets, food, parking for a meaningless one of 82 games is complete bananas.

Also, I doubt Larry T has the final say on tickets. On paper yes, but in practice the guy is so busy he probably delegates these decisions to senior execs who will brief him on quarterly/annual business planning.

It is what it is. Real fans helped to build this into a guaranteed money printer for very wealthy peeps. Now most true hardcore basketball fans no longer hold much value to ownership.

Between Corporation involvement, along with the growing number of very wealthy casuals who simply like to do things that are expensive for the simple fact they can say they 'did it', this will only continue to get worse in a growing City with no competition whatsoever.

Thankfully we have a neighbour who own season tix and don't they dont even care about basketball so they toss of a few tickets during the season. Guy has more signed jerseys in his basement then the hall of fame but hardly even cares about basketball. A sign of the times as to the type of fans holding tickets. No matter how much money I have there's absolutely no value in my eyes to pay for regulars season games at the asking price for any opponent.

Post championship has shown they all know they no longer have to try to put out a winning product and it's clear they have had zero interest too. Congrats to the owners as they now have a golden cow which basically milks itself.

I've started to make seeing the Raps in other cities a priority. If I'm in a certain city, I will try to catch a game. So far, I've seen the Raps in Brooklyn, NY, Orlando, Washington, Chicago. Other than NY and maybe Chicago, the price to get in was a lot less. MSG way by far the best basketball experience.

Scase wrote:

hype_2004 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:When the argument is you're long term fanbase is fleeing and you hope to replace them with tourists, I don't know.

Maybe they sell the seats, but they'll kill the atmosphere in the process. Either way, I doubt it stops the erosion we already see. It's a bad product at this price imo.

They're asking 50 win team prices, while providing a 25 win team product.

30 plus million foreign tourists visit every year more than enough to fill seats, Toronto is the Canadian New York just go to any damn Knicks game filled with corporate suits and Tourists with a few nutjob fans in the "cheap" seats, that's what Toronto has become. Likewise the suits are MLSE and RoBeTel gives a crap about any atmosphere these greedy bastards only care about the profit margins and that's their bottomline like any business.

Except MSG is world famous, I really doubt that the team could subsist on nothing but tourists paying for games. Like who TF is gonna want to go to toronto, in the winter, to watch the raptors lol. Take a step back friend.

They sure didn't fill all those empty seats this year. I don't see why that changes if we're stuck next year tanking to save the draft pick again. It's bad value for anybody, and not an entertaining product at this point.

I think it's more likely we panic when we see the seat sales turn up sour, and we make a major change of some sort. Be that good or bad.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Scase wrote:

hype_2004 wrote:
30 plus million foreign tourists visit every year more than enough to fill seats, Toronto is the Canadian New York just go to any damn Knicks game filled with corporate suits and Tourists with a few nutjob fans in the "cheap" seats, that's what Toronto has become. Likewise the suits are MLSE and RoBeTel gives a crap about any atmosphere these greedy bastards only care about the profit margins and that's their bottomline like any business.

Except MSG is world famous, I really doubt that the team could subsist on nothing but tourists paying for games. Like who TF is gonna want to go to toronto, in the winter, to watch the raptors lol. Take a step back friend.

They sure didn't fill all those empty seats this year. I don't see why that changes if we're stuck next year tanking to save the draft pick again. It's bad value for anybody, and not an entertaining product at this point.

I think it's more likely we panic when we see the seat sales turn up sour, and we make a major change of some sort. Be that good or bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

Literally 7th in attendance - in what world was there empty seats? Raptors had higher attendance than Leafs this year.

DelAbbot wrote:Suppose there is a level of management above Masai (not Larry T), who is more knowledgeable about the business of entertainment / consessions etc, it will still be Masai who sets the ticket prices (based on his own team's research of market conditions and team's projected performance) then submit to his superiors for approval.

I would be actually shocked if Masai was setting ticket prices.

There is 0% chance IMO Masai has anything to do with that. They would have research and marketing departments responsible for that.

6ixpessant wrote:The last game I went to was ring night vs the Pels. I'm good forever.

I save my sports dollars for NFL games in Europe... since it's a whole weekend of fun, with a Super Bowl vibe around the cities, and not just 3 hours with a bunch of suits.

ElClásico last weekend was €600 for a seat up top.... insanity! You can head down to the stadium and enjoy the pregame festivities and then just watch from a bar outside the stadium for the cost of a burger and a few beers. Then enjoy the festivities afterwards.

Even if you have the disposable means, it's not making sense to spend that kind of money regularly. So many other cool things to waste money on that last more than a few hours.

I think back to the dozens and dozens of live sporting events that I have been to, there are really only a handful of "holy crap, I'm glad I was there!"... the biggest one being the Bautista bat flip night at SkyDome against the Rangers. That was a wild and fun atmosphere getting showered with 500 level beers. The other was sitting in the 500 level when Damon beat Jordan... Tickets were like $5!

I'm sure the Kawhi shot was epic... but when I looked at prices to attend at the time... uh no... and I don't regret it.

I love your take on this 6 ix pessant.

YogurtProducer wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Scase wrote:Except MSG is world famous, I really doubt that the team could subsist on nothing but tourists paying for games. Like who TF is gonna want to go to toronto, in the winter, to watch the raptors lol. Take a step back friend.

They sure didn't fill all those empty seats this year. I don't see why that changes if we're stuck next year tanking to save the draft pick again. It's bad value for anybody, and not an entertaining product at this point.

I think it's more likely we panic when we see the seat sales turn up sour, and we make a major change of some sort. Be that good or bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

Literally 7th in attendance - in what world was there empty seats? Raptors had higher attendance than Leafs this year.

These mfers are just in denial the Raptors have a marketing team that studies trends and have data to follow through with their pricing. These morons think they just set the price to whatever the hell they want, there is a demand from people within the city, province, the country and people out of the country and that's just straight facts supported by data. Now continue to b*tch in your mother's or slumlords basements about how expensive it is to live in this city, no one cares.

refshateRaps wrote:It is what it is. Real fans helped to build this into a guaranteed money printer for very wealthy peeps. Now most true hardcore basketball fans no longer hold much value to ownership.

Between Corporation involvement, along with the growing number of very wealthy casuals who simply like to do things that are expensive for the simple fact they can say they 'did it', this will only continue to get worse in a growing City with no competition whatsoever.

Thankfully we have a neighbour who own season tix and don't they dont even care about basketball so they toss of a few tickets during the season. Guy has more signed jerseys in his basement then the hall of fame but hardly even cares about basketball. A sign of the times as to the type of fans holding tickets. No matter how much money I have there's absolutely no value in my eyes to pay for regulars season games at the asking price for any opponent.

Post championship has shown they all know they no longer have to try to put out a winning product and it's clear they have had zero interest too. Congrats to the owners as they now have a golden cow which basically milks itself.

Your the type of individual that corporate doesn't give a crap about, unless you spend on merchandise, have cable/league pass that don't stream games on IPTV like all these losers here(yeah you know who you are ) and buy tickets on games they have no use for you. There is a certain market and demographics that corporate likes to cater to, those dumb casuals who don't care about the product and have loads of disposable income. Many of these are tourists that just want to attend the games in Toronto because it's trendy, this is just straight facts.

hype_2004 wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:They sure didn't fill all those empty seats this year. I don't see why that changes if we're stuck next year tanking to save the draft pick again. It's bad value for anybody, and not an entertaining product at this point.

I think it's more likely we panic when we see the seat sales turn up sour, and we make a major change of some sort. Be that good or bad.

https://www.espn.com/nba/attendance

Literally 7th in attendance - in what world was there empty seats? Raptors had higher attendance than Leafs this year.

These mfers are just in denial the Raptors have a marketing team that studies trends and have data to follow through with their pricing. These morons think they just set the price to whatever the hell they want, there is a demand from people within the city, province, the country and people out of the country and that's just straight facts supported by data. Now continue to b*tch in your mother's or slumlords basements about how expensive it is to live in this city, no one cares.

Does the marketing team put a winning product on the floor? No, it's a 25 win team and we're getting younger. That means further away from winning. I think a lot of people went into last year hoping the trajectory would correct...but it didn't.

Rather than acknowledge the pile of dog crap on the floor, some would rather launch ad hominin attacks to make themselves feel secure about their decisions. Like they own any of the poor decisions made by the front office.