Gherardini scouting in Europe

[RockTHECasbah]

yah, those hard kats, jalen, mo and vince, brought us all the glory, dese EUROS ARE riding the wave

ride the wave

[emfive]

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so, you are saying you want great, talented players in Toronto, right?

why do you have to add a racial and/or cultural aspect to that?

Aw he just can't stand those jump shooting Euros like Ginobli and Parker.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

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There is such a player who is available but I don't think the Raps are in position to use the MLE next summer. Plus, the emergence of Humphries makes the signing of another 4 highly questionable.

Tripping players
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-FAT6Dxiig

Breaking Teeth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn7vEoKD_sc


Unless you are talking about finding a rugged 3 which makes more sense.

Whoops...I quoted myself instead of editing

[emfive]

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You guys are just too much.


When a point is made only the extremes are understood. If someone objects to too much focus on Europe, posters than counter that we should ignore Europe all together. How can rational discussion follow when you guys are such kids?

In the case of Euro players, even some of the most hyped and most successful players have a hard time adjusting to our game. The biggest issue is that the game is played at different speeds.

MG needs to scout Europe... but I also would like to see him do some scouting in NA. This way he has a balanced perspective when conveying what he saw to Bryan.

Do you believe for a second that is not the case.

Honestly. I hope you are not defending the comments of Sai Whoever who was at the root of this tangent in the thread?

Furthermore the next poster suggested the Raps lost in the playoffs because of the Euros on the team! If not for the hated Euros the Raps would not have even had a sniff at the playoffs.

[jaymeister15]

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so, you are saying you want great, talented players in Toronto, right?

why do you have to add a racial and/or cultural aspect to that?

Well, to me his post sounded like it was more about the European style than the Europeans themselves.

And whichever side you're on, you can see there is a pretty significant difference between the North America and European styles of play.

Also, I think it was pretty reasonable for him to suggest that the European style has not been successful in the NBA playoffs (so far anyways).

[Fairview4Life]

i dont noe why people on this board now just relying on euro talent
like they are better than the us or can talent

you guys are falling in love with the puzzyness

Oh yeah, there's an incredibly intelligent point in that gem of a post.

I'm sure the Raps are ignoring the US to solely scout in Europe, to the detriment of the team. I wish I had the intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the Raptors front office that some of you do. It must be great to be such an insider.


On another note, Gorgeous Giorgios is supposed to be more of an athletic prototypical SF in the mold of Garbo isn't he? I'd be happy with a younger more athletic "puzzy" like Garbo being brought over.

[C Court]

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Also, I think it was pretty reasonable for him to suggest that the European style has not been successful in the NBA playoffs (so far anyways).

Used to say the same thing in hockey in the 70's.

This reminds me of what a couple of my friends from Oakland (GSW seatholders) used to say about Michael Jordan in the late 80's....."he may be a good player, but he's never won anything in the NBA"....

Give the Euros time.

[emfive]

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Well, to me his post sounded like it was more about the European style than the Europeans themselves.

And whichever side you're on, you can see there is a pretty significant difference between the North America and European styles of play.

Also, I think it was pretty reasonable for him to suggest that the European style has not been successful in the NBA playoffs (so far anyways).

Way too much has been made of this anyway. Why not go make this comment to Smitch? He will let you know what the issue is. The Euro thing exists mostly in the minds of the posters on this board.

Do you think SAS are a Euro team? Do you think it is Raps management idea that they be a jump shooting team? Sorry Charlie just cuz they want guys who can shoot does not mean ....

[from24ft]

Aw he just can't stand those jump shooting Euros like Ginobli and Parker.

For every Ginobli there is an Arenas, a Boozer, a Ben Wallace.

yah, those hard kats, jalen, mo and vince, brought us all the glory, dese EUROS ARE riding the wave

Another brilliant post by the casbah. You proved it, no toughness in NA.

[regarding MG scouting NA] Do you believe for a second that is not the case.

I would like to see some stories on it. It seems we always seem to hear about a pin drop in Europe, but hear very little about our continent.

[Fairview4Life]

With the exception of Danny Ainge scouting Durant last year, you hear virtually nothing about any NBA team scouting in North America because it is something every single team does. One of the things that makes the Raps relatively unique is the strength of their international connections through Gherardini and Ujiri, and this is what will be reported on. This is an advantage the Raps have, as well as the apparent feeling amongst some European players that playing in Toronto would be a better option than playing in the US. This is an advantage and not a problem or some sort of crazy conspiracy to ruin the team.

+20 wins.

[tecumseh18]

It's trite to observe that this whole argument is silly. Most of the usual points have already been made, but here are some random thoughts:

1. BC is the guy that drafted Amare. BC traded Nash for the right to draft Matrix. BC loves Americans. Would any of us have drafted Aldridge #1 over Bargs after looking at a complete medical report?

2. MG's European contacts have to be exploited. He got Roko to a good developental situation in Rome. Let him do his job.

3. RealGmer's have been saying we lack toughness because of the absence of a Euro (Garbo). In fact, the only retaliation I've seen in the last year by a Raptor was by a Euro (Rasho in the Denver game).

4. American players are not guaranteed to take it to the rack. The Bulls, for example, are an All-American jump shooting team.

[HiJiNX]

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Even if someone agreed the intelligent play would not be to ignore all Euros!

Did I say we should ignore all Euros? Read my post again.

Regarding Sai Young, he was obviously using hyperbole in his post, the way frustrated ppl on the internet tend to.

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so, you are saying you want great, talented players in Toronto, right?

why do you have to add a racial and/or cultural aspect to that?

That's exactly what I'm saying; I want great talented players in Toronto.

I wasn't throwing any racial aspects into my post...Parker is black (or mixed, I'm not sure) and he's a jumpshooter. He plays a European style game. I'm not saying anything bad about Europeans in general, I just don't feel their style of game is successful in the NBA playoffs.

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Do you believe for a second that is not the case.

Honestly. I hope you are not defending the comments of Sai Whoever who was at the root of this tangent in the thread?

Furthermore the next poster suggested the Raps lost in the playoffs because of the Euros on the team! If not for the hated Euros the Raps would not have even had a sniff at the playoffs.

1. I didn't suggest the Raptors lost because of the Euros on the team. What I suggested is that our collection of Euros, who more often than not, are soft, played a factor in our losing because we as a team played soft. Furthermore, the jumpshot is relied upon more in Europe (as is passing), and well, I likened a team of jumpshooters to a European style of game. And I suggested that played a factor in our losing against the Nets because jumpshooting teams do not usually fare well in the NBA playoffs.

2. Yes, our style of play helped get us to the playoffs, but it means nothing if we can't win in the playoffs. I'm a guy who isn't satisfied with just making the big dance, I want to win it.

It's pretty sad that I have to defend myself for things I didn't even say, lol. You guys are too much sometimes.

EDIT: Well I shouldn't say European players more often than not are soft. I should just say, their style of game tends to rely more on jumpshots, a type of game which doesn't really succeed in the NBA post-season.

[Fairview4Life]

And the Raps have a pretty good story this year about their American scouting: Jamario Moon.

[Fairview4Life]

Did I say we should ignore all Euros? Read my post again.

Regarding Sai Young, he was obviously using hyperbole in his post, the way frustrated ppl on the internet tend to.

He was replying to Sai Young originally, not you, and the reference to not signing any Euro's at all was directed at him. You should also read some of Sai Young's posts before deciding he's using hyperbole or not.

[HiJiNX]

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He was replying to Sai Young originally, not you, and the reference to not signing any Euro's at all was directed at him. You should also read some of Sai Young's posts before deciding he's using hyperbole or not.

I read Sai Young's posts. I realize he makes broad generalizations. I replied to your post because I feel that often posters on this board have unpopular opinions and state them in a politically incorrect or inarticulate way and then the rest of the board jumps on them for it. And I won't let a certain poster's posting history ignore him/her when he may have made a good point because he's said stupid things before.

And I read his post assuming he was using hyperbole...maybe I just have a different perspective than most on this board.

[Geddy]

I don't mind having European players on the team, but I do believe that you can't load up the team with too many European players who aren't accustomed to the NBA style of play.

This is even more the case when you have a coach who is going to run a "north american" style offense. If you bring in a player who is used to a different style, then make him switch to another style it defeats the purpose of bringing him and probably negates what strengths he has to start with.

I think you need a good set of both styles to compliment each other, but not too much of one style. It helps to mix things up and diversify the offense. With that said I think the Raptors have a good set of non-North American players as it is (that's when counting a healthy Garbo).

One problem i do have is this general misconception among many people on this board that some magical answers to all the team's problems are going to be found in some European league. It's good to scout those other leagues but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves with this belief that euro > *.

[emfive]

I stand by what I said about the Euro thing. Who would argue that the Euro game would work here. The rules are different at any rate. Everone would play the Euro game if those rules applied here. If you brought your argument to Sam or any of the Raps coaches they would laugh at you. Raps are NOT playing Euro ball. Does the Euro game involve one on one iso with PF an PG and ... no ball movement ... which is causing the Raps coaches to pull whatever hair they have left out of their heads.

BTW. If Parker was a jump shooter Pops would nail his azz to the bench.

[emfive]

I don't mind having European players on the team, but I do believe that you can't load up the team with too many European players who aren't accustomed to the NBA style of play.

This is even more the case when you have a coach who is going to run a "north american" style offense. If you bring in a player who is used to a different style, then make him switch to another style it defeats the purpose of bringing him and probably negates what strengths he has to start with.

I think you need a good set of both styles to compliment each other, but not too much of one style. It helps to mix things up and diversify the offense. With that said I think the Raptors have a good set of non-North American players as it is (that's when counting a healthy Garbo).

One problem i do have is this general misconception among many people on this board that some magical answers to all the team's problems are going to be found in some European league. It's good to scout those other leagues but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves with this belief that euro > *.

Do you have no concern over the misconception on this board that finding an athletic slasher will lead them to the NBA promised land?

[HiJiNX]

I don't mind having European players on the team, but I do believe that you can't load up the team with too many European players who aren't accustomed to the NBA style of play.

This is even more the case when you have a coach who is going to run a "north american" style offense. If you bring in a player who is used to a different style, then make him switch to another style it defeats the purpose of bringing him and probably negates what strengths he has to start with.

I think you need a good set of both styles to compliment each other, but not too much of one style. It helps to mix things up and diversify the offense. With that said I think the Raptors have a good set of non-North American players as it is (that's when counting a healthy Garbo).

One problem i do have is this general misconception among many people on this board that some magical answers to all the team's problems are going to be found in some European league. It's good to scout those other leagues but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves with this belief that euro > *.

This is pretty much what I was getting at.

[jonny three time]

European players can't win in the playoffs??? Well maybe this team is too much of a jumpshooting team, but if anything having Europeans or International players on your team makes it easier to win. Just look at the teams last year that had 3 or more International players in their regular rotation.

San Antonio
Cleveland
Utah
Phoenix
Toronto
Orlando

There might be another team I can't think of so feel free to correct me, but those are the teams I could think of off the top of my head. Even still that grouping of teams had a pretty good season last year, and were 4 of the top 5 teams in the playoffs. Only Orlando and TO weren't GREAT teams (both still good) last year and its because they were both young and inexperienced, not to mention that their group of International players had smaller roles than the elite teams.

Whether you like it or not International players have a knack for making the players around them better, and even if it doesn't show in the individual stats, the teams that have the best International talents have an easier time winning games. They learned a style of play that is more conducive to a TEAM winning and not about highlights or stat stuffing. Thats the reason why International teams with less talent can beat the SUPER talented US team, why Euro club-teams can beat NBA teams with infinite more talent in exhibition games, and why NBA teams who make a point of having International players on their roster win way more games than teams with all-american rosters. Raps fans should be happy about this fact and not get caught up in the immature us-vs.-them inferiority complex.