The Gradey Dick Thread Part 3

[HumbleRen]

What was the better move from this season?

Trading OG for RJ & IQ

OR

Drafting Gradey

OG for RJ and IQ lol.

OG was 100% going to leave us for nothing.

[dagger]

What’s interesting in my assessment of Gradey and Ochai is whether they are making Brown and Trent redundant for next season and increasing the possibility of dumping Brown for cap space rather than picking up his option for trading purposes. Is $30 million in cap space plus the $8 million room exception better than keeping Brown and/or Trent to stay over the cap and use the MLE and trade exceptions? Maybe being a cap space team would be better in the long run, in other words rent out the cap space for another first round pick or two, or throw out an offer for a restricted free agent at a position of greater need than the wing. I suppose whether we keep our own first this year will have some bearing on that, also whether some taxed teams need to unload some actual talent.

[YogurtProducer]

What’s interesting in my assessment of Gradey and Ochai is whether they are making Brown and Trent redundant for next season and increasing the possibility of dumping Brown for cap space rather than picking up his option for trading purposes. Is $30 million in cap space plus the $8 million room exception better than keeping Brown and/or Trent to stay over the cap and use the MLE and trade exceptions? Maybe being a cap space team would be better in the long run, in other words rent out the cap space for another first round pick or two, or throw out an offer for a restricted free agent at a position of greater need than the wing. I suppose whether we keep our own first this year will have some bearing on that, also whether some taxed teams need to unload some actual talent.

We just went through 5 (edit - 3) years of having no depth - why are y'all so excited to go back to that and play Scottie / Dick / IQ / RJ 38 minutes per game and run them into the ground?

[dagger]

What’s interesting in my assessment of Gradey and Ochai is whether they are making Brown and Trent redundant for next season and increasing the possibility of dumping Brown for cap space rather than picking up his option for trading purposes. Is $30 million in cap space plus the $8 million room exception better than keeping Brown and/or Trent to stay over the cap and use the MLE and trade exceptions? Maybe being a cap space team would be better in the long run, in other words rent out the cap space for another first round pick or two, or throw out an offer for a restricted free agent at a position of greater need than the wing. I suppose whether we keep our own first this year will have some bearing on that, also whether some taxed teams need to unload some actual talent.

We just went through 5 (edit - 3) years of having no depth - why are y'all so excited to go back to that and play Scottie / Dick / IQ / RJ 38 minutes per game and run them into the ground?

In this draft guards and wings are prominent in the top 10 but the Raptors have a crying need for size. A muscular PF off the bench would be a better depth option. So if we draft a SG or PG with our own pick, getting a good bench PF via trade or free agency would be a more useful move.

[PD28]

What was the better move from this season?

Trading OG for RJ & IQ

OR

Drafting Gradey

OG for RJ and IQ lol.

OG was 100% going to leave us for nothing.

OG trade will go down as one of Bobby/Masai's best. If this hot 3 PT shooting by RJ is real, it's a huge steal for us.

[tecumseh18]

What’s interesting in my assessment of Gradey and Ochai is whether they are making Brown and Trent redundant for next season and increasing the possibility of dumping Brown for cap space rather than picking up his option for trading purposes. Is $30 million in cap space plus the $8 million room exception better than keeping Brown and/or Trent to stay over the cap and use the MLE and trade exceptions? Maybe being a cap space team would be better in the long run, in other words rent out the cap space for another first round pick or two, or throw out an offer for a restricted free agent at a position of greater need than the wing. I suppose whether we keep our own first this year will have some bearing on that, also whether some taxed teams need to unload some actual talent.

We just went through 5 (edit - 3) years of having no depth - why are y'all so excited to go back to that and play Scottie / Dick / IQ / RJ 38 minutes per game and run them into the ground?

In this draft guards and wings are prominent in the top 10 but the Raptors have a crying need for size. A muscular PF off the bench would be a better depth option. So if we draft a SG or PG with our own pick, getting a good bench PF via trade or free agency would be a more useful move.

Kelly O. is NOT a centre. He's a back-up PF, at best. Starting him at C is the main cause of our losing streak right now. So any front-court acquisition would have to be someone who is capable of playing C for those occasions when Poeltl is injured. I don't know if we could get Drummond or JV for the room exception this summer, but guys like that should be the target.

[Appostis]

We just went through 5 (edit - 3) years of having no depth - why are y'all so excited to go back to that and play Scottie / Dick / IQ / RJ 38 minutes per game and run them into the ground?

In this draft guards and wings are prominent in the top 10 but the Raptors have a crying need for size. A muscular PF off the bench would be a better depth option. So if we draft a SG or PG with our own pick, getting a good bench PF via trade or free agency would be a more useful move.

Kelly O. is NOT a centre. He's a back-up PF, at best. Starting him at C is the main cause of our losing streak right now. So any front-court acquisition would have to be someone who is capable of playing C for those occasions when Poeltl is injured. I don't know if we could get Drummond or JV for the room exception this summer, but guys like that should be the target.

Oh?

Not the fact that the starting PG, SF, PF, C and more being out on a rebuilding team? Not the fact that almost half the roster are g league cal ups..

It's definitely that Kelly O is the starting Center...

[ArthurVandelay]

In this draft guards and wings are prominent in the top 10 but the Raptors have a crying need for size. A muscular PF off the bench would be a better depth option. So if we draft a SG or PG with our own pick, getting a good bench PF via trade or free agency would be a more useful move.

Kelly O. is NOT a centre. He's a back-up PF, at best. Starting him at C is the main cause of our losing streak right now. So any front-court acquisition would have to be someone who is capable of playing C for those occasions when Poeltl is injured. I don't know if we could get Drummond or JV for the room exception this summer, but guys like that should be the target.

Oh?

Not the fact that the starting PG, SF, PF, C and more being out on a rebuilding team? Not the fact that almost half the roster are g league cal ups..

It's definitely that Kelly O is the starting Center...

I agree there is more reasons behind the losing than Kelly this year.

However if he is the starting C next season, that I will be the tell that the FO isn’t concerned about being competitive.

[tecumseh18]

In this draft guards and wings are prominent in the top 10 but the Raptors have a crying need for size. A muscular PF off the bench would be a better depth option. So if we draft a SG or PG with our own pick, getting a good bench PF via trade or free agency would be a more useful move.

Kelly O. is NOT a centre. He's a back-up PF, at best. Starting him at C is the main cause of our losing streak right now. So any front-court acquisition would have to be someone who is capable of playing C for those occasions when Poeltl is injured. I don't know if we could get Drummond or JV for the room exception this summer, but guys like that should be the target.

Oh?

Not the fact that the starting PG, SF, PF, C and more being out on a rebuilding team? Not the fact that almost half the roster are g league cal ups..

It's definitely that Kelly O is the starting Center...

We were still losing when RJ and IQ were in the lineup, genius. You can't win games - even against crap teams like the Pistons or the Wiz - without a legit centre to rebound and offer at least some rim protection. Kelly don't play like that.

Anyway the important point is, as ArthurV suggest, Raptors need a real back-up centre if they intend to compete next season, especially now that Jontay won't be available. Whether that's through the draft - e.g. that Klingon guy - or by bringing in JV or Drummond, we can't just have the entire season depend on Jak's health.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Kelly O. is NOT a centre. He's a back-up PF, at best. Starting him at C is the main cause of our losing streak right now. So any front-court acquisition would have to be someone who is capable of playing C for those occasions when Poeltl is injured. I don't know if we could get Drummond or JV for the room exception this summer, but guys like that should be the target.

Oh?

Not the fact that the starting PG, SF, PF, C and more being out on a rebuilding team? Not the fact that almost half the roster are g league cal ups..

It's definitely that Kelly O is the starting Center...

I agree there is more reasons behind the losing than Kelly this year.

However if he is the starting C next season, that I will be the tell that the FO isn’t concerned about being competitive.

I don't think I've heard anyone seriously suggest that Olynyk would be the starting center next year. The front office seems quite happy with Poeltl, at least for next year. Olynyk is starting now, and is really the Raps only center option, because of a crazy set of circumstances that includes Poeltl being injured, Precious being traded, Koloko's career-threatening condition, Boucher's injury, and Porter Jr. facing a league gambling investigation.

I really can't see the FO saying, "this worked out great, let's roll with this next year".

[ArthurVandelay]

Oh?

Not the fact that the starting PG, SF, PF, C and more being out on a rebuilding team? Not the fact that almost half the roster are g league cal ups..

It's definitely that Kelly O is the starting Center...

I agree there is more reasons behind the losing than Kelly this year.

However if he is the starting C next season, that I will be the tell that the FO isn’t concerned about being competitive.

I don't think I've heard anyone seriously suggest that Olynyk would be the starting center next year. The front office seems quite happy with Poeltl, at least for next year. Olynyk is starting now, and is really the Raps only center option, because of a crazy set of circumstances that includes Poeltl being injured, Precious being traded, Koloko's career-threatening condition, Boucher's injury, and Porter Jr. facing a league gambling investigation.

I really can't see the FO saying, "this worked out great, let's roll with this next year".

My point was about determining the intentions of the front office for next season.

If KO is the starting C, then they aren’t serious about competing. Obviously KO starting would mean Poeltl is gone.

I’d be all for KO starting next year fwiw. Give me one more season of tank.

[tecumseh18]

I’d be all for KO starting next year fwiw. Give me one more season of tank.

Sure, if Raps don't make top 6, and convey the pick this year. But if we do keep it, there's no way I want to concede next season, when we'll have Scottie, RJ, IQ and a stronger Gradey. That team won't lose enough games - even with Kelly starting at C - to guarantee we finish bottom/top 6 again. Is there any hope that the Wizards, Pistons and Hornets will improve?

If the pick does convey this year, we'll try for the play-in and accept a pick somewhere between 8 and 14, which will probably result in a better player than picking ANYWHERE in this draft.

[Appostis]

Kelly O. is NOT a centre. He's a back-up PF, at best. Starting him at C is the main cause of our losing streak right now. So any front-court acquisition would have to be someone who is capable of playing C for those occasions when Poeltl is injured. I don't know if we could get Drummond or JV for the room exception this summer, but guys like that should be the target.

Oh?

Not the fact that the starting PG, SF, PF, C and more being out on a rebuilding team? Not the fact that almost half the roster are g league cal ups..

It's definitely that Kelly O is the starting Center...

We were still losing when RJ and IQ were in the lineup, genius. You can't win games - even against crap teams like the Pistons or the Wiz - without a legit centre to rebound and offer at least some rim protection. Kelly don't play like that.

Anyway the important point is, as ArthurV suggest, Raptors need a real back-up centre if they intend to compete next season, especially now that Jontay won't be available. Whether that's through the draft - e.g. that Klingon guy - or by bringing in JV or Drummond, we can't just have the entire season depend on Jak's health.

Well my point is..you're completely nuts.

Glad we had that chat.

Seriously among the reasons that they are having this losing stretch...KO starting is so far down the list. It's a insane take. Has the guy been viewed as a starting Center? Of course not.. but to even suggest that's the primary reason they lost 11 games in a row..

[ArthurVandelay]

I’d be all for KO starting next year fwiw. Give me one more season of tank.

Sure, if Raps don't make top 6, and convey the pick this year. But if we do keep it, there's no way I want to concede next season, when we'll have Scottie, RJ, IQ and a stronger Gradey. That team won't lose enough games - even with Kelly starting at C - to guarantee we finish bottom/top 6 again. Is there any hope that the Wizards, Pistons and Hornets will improve?

If the pick does convey this year, we'll try for the play-in and accept a pick somewhere between 8 and 14, which will probably result in a better player than picking ANYWHERE in this draft.

Washington and Portland are the only teams that are actively trying to be bad or don’t care if they are bad.

Charlotte, Detroit, San Antonio are going to be doing all they can to get better.

I could see Chicago being bad as their pick is top 10 protected and going nowhere.

Memphis can’t possibly have any bad luck left.

Utah is probably going to do what they’ve done the last two year: be a decent team and start tanking come February to keep their top 10 pick.

Brooklyn and Atlanta don’t own their picks and have no incentive to be bad.


If Darko is coaching to develop, Poeltl is traded, and the bench is comprised of rookies/projects/Temple, IQ/RJ/Scottie/Dick won’t be enough to keep this team competitive. Injuries happen and depth matters.

There is a path to be bottom 3 next season which would give the team 93% odds to keep the pick. Bottom 4 is 80%.

The worst outcome is trying to compete next season and having guys get injured again at the end of the year.

Anyways, I’m rambling here now lol but whether the pick conveys or not, I’m all for tanking next season assuming they continue to use their cap space or expiring contracts to trade for prospects and picks.

Looking forward to May 12 to get an indication of what happens next.

[dagger]

I don't see Poeltl being traded for another year. Not until the shape of the team is further defined. In another year, his deal is half done, it's flat-lined so will be smaller percentage of a rising cap. In the summer of 2025-26, it will be just a bit more than the mid-level exception. So if he's healthy, he's easily trade-able and good value. If some team with a lot of good shooters and a need for a good rim protector and post player, he might get traded this off-season, but it would be a value trade not a salary dump. I consider that unlikely this summer.

[Drakeem]

What was the better move from this season?

Trading OG for RJ & IQ

OR

Drafting Gradey

The trade. There's still no guarantee Dick even becomes a starting level player like the other two, and the other two players still have untapped potential of their own to reach.

I'm happy Dick found his footing and turned his rookie season around, but I'm not as high on him as some other people on this board. I think he'll be a good rotation player for sure, but even if you have some talent it's a big leap to become a starter or better in the NBA.

[OakleyDokely]

OCT/NOV/DEC: 12.3 MIN, 3.5 PPG, .294 FG, .250 3PT, 1.000 FT
JAN/FEB/MAR: 24.2 MIN, 10.1 PPG .452 FG, .392 3PT, .793 FT

[OakleyDokely]

Since Jan 1st (38 games):

24.7 MIN, 10.5 PPG, 2.7 REB, 1.4 AST, 0.7 STL, .451 FG, .393 3PT, .813 FT, .567 TS

[ArthurVandelay]

Since Jan 1st (38 games):

24.7 MIN, 10.5 PPG, 2.7 REB, 1.4 AST, 0.7 STL, .451 FG, .393 3PT, .813 FT, .567 TS

And for the last 20 of those games he’s been playing with some pretty, uh, lacking talent

[Scase]

Since Jan 1st (38 games):

24.7 MIN, 10.5 PPG, 2.7 REB, 1.4 AST, 0.7 STL, .451 FG, .393 3PT, .813 FT, .567 TS

And for the last 20 of those games he’s been playing with some pretty, uh, lacking talent

Honestly, aside from his TS%, even taking his entire season stats into account, it's not looking half bad.

20.6 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 2.2 REB, 1.2 AST, 0.6 SPG, .425 FG, .364 3PT, .872 FT, .545 TS%

If someone said this would be his production at the beginning of the year, I wouldn't be mad with it.