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ForeverRDjazz wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:

ForeverRDjazz wrote:Burks never passed the eye test and was horrible pick. I remember Trey missing like 20 straight 3s and looked like a midget. Don't see it..

I agree that Burke was a bad pick--I took a lot of heat for criticizing it back in the day. But again, this is purely a statistical comparison about efficiency, in which George is currently losing in pretty much every metric to a player who was maligned for his poor efficiency. That's just a fact:

https://stathead.com/tiny/PCQVD

You can pull any numbers you like to make your dog win. But bottom line Trey is maybe 5.11 while KG is a good 6.4 and a much better shooting touch. Trey has to be going forward to get his 3 point shot to the rim while KG can step back and make the 3. Surely you guys and find a better comparison than Trey? Anfernee Simons is a better comparison. Lets give him a full year before driving the bus over him.

You're acting like Trey Burke wasn't highly touted or something. He went 9th in a draft well ahead of Keyonte and a Wooden award winner. If the only fallback you have is height, that's not much. He is not as athletic or long as Simons.

I was very meh on the Burke pick, but there was mild surprise he was available at 9.

MalonesElbows wrote:

ForeverRDjazz wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:I agree that Burke was a bad pick--I took a lot of heat for criticizing it back in the day. But again, this is purely a statistical comparison about efficiency, in which George is currently losing in pretty much every metric to a player who was maligned for his poor efficiency. That's just a fact:

https://stathead.com/tiny/PCQVD

You can pull any numbers you like to make your dog win. But bottom line Trey is maybe 5.11 while KG is a good 6.4 and a much better shooting touch. Trey has to be going forward to get his 3 point shot to the rim while KG can step back and make the 3. Surely you guys and find a better comparison than Trey? Anfernee Simons is a better comparison. Lets give him a full year before driving the bus over him.

You're acting like Trey Burke wasn't highly touted or something. He went 9th in a draft well ahead of Keyonte and a Wooden award winner. If the only fallback you have is height, that's not much. He is not as athletic or long as Simons.

Yeah we moved up and wasted two picks on him. WASTED. TY was our coach and pushed for him and you gotta love Dennis pulling the trigger.

The major work in that comparison seems to be the efg%, which is abysmal for both. If you look at TS%, though, Keyonte has a huge advantage:

George: 51.6% and rising
vs.
Burke: 47.4% for his Jazz career

Keyonte's freethrow rate is almost triple Burke's. I anticipate that by the end of the season he will be over the 51.2% he's at now...maybe closer to 53%? League average is usually around 57%, a bit lower for guards. 53% in his rookie year would be fine. Mitchell was at 54.1%.

Jamal Murray was my pre-draft comp for George, and his rookie year his TS% was 51.8%.

babyjax13 wrote:I was very meh on the Burke pick, but there was mild surprise he was available at 9.

I wasn't surprise he was ninth but surprise jazz traded two first round picks to move up. Didn't know much about TB and had hopes, but the first month I was hating the move and years later we clearly see why. I didn't know a Rudy and wasn't on my radar but the greet freak was. 6,9 and was compared to Magic I felt he was worth one of our two pick. We know he wasn't done growing and now 7. Wasn't long ago I heard why they didn't take him. Couldn't get his medical records. Why didn't we send our our doctor? Good job Dennis. People whine about Danny makes me laugh. After years under DL.

babyjax13 wrote:The major work in that comparison seems to be the efg%, which is abysmal for both. If you look at TS%, though, Keyonte has a huge advantage:

George: 51.6% and rising
vs.
Burke: 47.4% for his Jazz career

Keyonte's freethrow rate is almost triple Burke's. I anticipate that by the end of the season he will be over the 51.2% he's at now...maybe closer to 53%? League average is usually around 57%, a bit lower for guards. 53% in his rookie year would be fine. Mitchell was at 54.1%.

Jamal Murray was my pre-draft comp for George, and his rookie year his TS% was 51.8%.

Update: 50 games in to his career, 20 year old KG is averaging 11.7 ppg on 54.1 TS%, with 4.3 apg, 2 tovs and 2.8 rebs in 24.9 mpg.
50 games in to his career, 21 year old Burke was averaging 12.3 ppg on 46.5 TS%, with 5.3 apg, 1.9 tovs and 3.2 rebs in 31.1 mpg.

Rookie KG is blowing away rookie Burke on TS%.

Crunch 99 wrote:

babyjax13 wrote:The major work in that comparison seems to be the efg%, which is abysmal for both. If you look at TS%, though, Keyonte has a huge advantage:

George: 51.6% and rising
vs.
Burke: 47.4% for his Jazz career

Keyonte's freethrow rate is almost triple Burke's. I anticipate that by the end of the season he will be over the 51.2% he's at now...maybe closer to 53%? League average is usually around 57%, a bit lower for guards. 53% in his rookie year would be fine. Mitchell was at 54.1%.

Jamal Murray was my pre-draft comp for George, and his rookie year his TS% was 51.8%.

Update: 50 games in to his career, 20 year old KG is averaging 11.7 ppg on 54.1 TS%, with 4.3 apg, 2 tovs and 2.8 rebs in 24.9 mpg.
50 games in to his career, 21 year old Trey Burke was averaging 12.3 ppg on 46.5 TS%, with 5.3 apg, 1.9 tovs and 3.2 rebs in 31.1 mpg.

Rookie KG is blowing away rookie Burke on TS%.

Amen, Keyonte is having a very solid rookie year......

Crunch 99 wrote:Update: 50 games in to his career, 20 year old KG is averaging 11.7 ppg on 54.1 TS%, with 4.3 apg, 2 tovs and 2.8 rebs in 24.9 mpg.
50 games in to his career, 21 year old Burke was averaging 12.3 ppg on 46.5 TS%, with 5.3 apg, 1.9 tovs and 3.2 rebs in 31.1 mpg.

Rookie KG is blowing away rookie Burke on TS%.

That's good to see but let's be real, that's not a very high bar.

Keyonte in 7 games in February:

15.4 ppg, 3.3 rebounds, 4.7 apg

47.1%FG, 45.1% 3PT, 71.4% FT

61.3% TS

Let's see if he can stick

Inigo Montoya wrote:

Crunch 99 wrote:Update: 50 games in to his career, 20 year old KG is averaging 11.7 ppg on 54.1 TS%, with 4.3 apg, 2 tovs and 2.8 rebs in 24.9 mpg.
50 games in to his career, 21 year old Burke was averaging 12.3 ppg on 46.5 TS%, with 5.3 apg, 1.9 tovs and 3.2 rebs in 31.1 mpg.

Rookie KG is blowing away rookie Burke on TS%.

That's good to see but let's be real, that's not a very high bar.

KG's TS% is good the last 25 games, or half the season, compared to most 23-24 rookies as well: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*GE*15:MIN*GE*20&DateFrom=12/28/2023&DateTo=02/16/2024&PlayerExperience=Rookie&dir=A&sort=TS_PCT



Edit: Now I've probably jinxed him.

I just noticed my above table with 20 mpg threshold excludes Whitmore and some other rookies who are playing meaningful minutes. Here is the same table, for the last 25 games, with mpg threshold down to 18 mpg. This table picks up Gradey Dick, Duop Reath, Cason Wallace and Cam Whitmore, all of whom have higher TS% than KG over last 25 games. Regardless, KG has a higher TS% than is league average for guards over the last 25 games. This is a good start for a rookie.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*GE*15:MIN*GE*18&DateFrom=12/28/2023&DateTo=02/16/2024&PlayerExperience=Rookie&dir=A&sort=TS_PCT

Inigo Montoya wrote:

Crunch 99 wrote:Update: 50 games in to his career, 20 year old KG is averaging 11.7 ppg on 54.1 TS%, with 4.3 apg, 2 tovs and 2.8 rebs in 24.9 mpg.
50 games in to his career, 21 year old Burke was averaging 12.3 ppg on 46.5 TS%, with 5.3 apg, 1.9 tovs and 3.2 rebs in 31.1 mpg.

Rookie KG is blowing away rookie Burke on TS%.

That's good to see but let's be real, that's not a very high bar.

No, but it puts him more in line with some of the better guard prospects in the last few years. Guards are usually horribly inefficient their rookie years.

KG had what? 33 points with rookie record with 9 threes. Minutes going up stats will go up also. Kid has ice in his veins.

Up to 54.9% TS but trending up. TS by month:
October: 52.9%
November: 47.3%
December: 54.5%
January: 56.6%
February: 56.5%
March: 62.3%

His March has obviously been a bit nutty and we are only halfway through so that number should come down, but this is pretty promising. As for the Burke comparison, his best TS% month his rookie season was 51.5% (the only month over 50%). His second year he had no months over 50%, his third year his best month was 54%TS, and his 4th year he had 1 month at 61% but otherwise most were in the 40s.

He has looked much better. I have hope he'll be better than I thought he would before the draft. In his second stint as a starter he's been balling.

Inigo Montoya wrote:He has looked much better. I have hope he'll be better than I thought he would before the draft. In his second stint as a starter he's been balling.

My feeling is that he's going to end up somewhere on the D'Angelo Russell <----> Jamal Murray spectrum in terms of role & caliber of player. Anywhere on that spectrum is really good for the 16th pick in the draft.

He has been great recently......love Key.

All three of the rookies have shown good upside in the past month. I think Hardy does a good job of knowing when to push.

Keyonte hasn't been shooting well this late stretch of season. He is down to 50.7% TS% for his 19 games since the All-Star break. I am going to look on the bright side, however, and homer-hope that this is just a young player hitting a rookie wall. The only rookies with more minutes are Holmgren, Miller, Wemby and Jaquez. Three of them are older, while the slightly younger Wemby has already been stiffened up by playing pro ball in Europe.

There is also the factor of the Jazz no longer playing veterans Markkanen, Collins, Clarkson and Olynyk, who provided some gravity and likely helped Keyonte get better looks.

babyjax13 wrote:Up to 54.9% TS but trending up. TS by month:
October: 52.9%
November: 47.3%
December: 54.5%
January: 56.6%
February: 56.5%
March: 62.3%

His March has obviously been a bit nutty and we are only halfway through so that number should come down, but this is pretty promising. As for the Burke comparison, his best TS% month his rookie season was 51.5% (the only month over 50%). His second year he had no months over 50%, his third year his best month was 54%TS, and his 4th year he had 1 month at 61% but otherwise most were in the 40s.

Cooled off in March in a big way, seemed to coincide with effectively having to be a 1st/2nd option on offense and inserting the other rookies into the offense.

October: 52.9%
November: 47.3%
December: 54.5%
January: 56.6%
February: 56.5%
March: 52.0%

Total: 52.9%