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HadAnEffectHere wrote:

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

It's just kind of directionless and the team feels weird.

Teams usually don't start as playoff teams and then trade away a ton of rotation guys to try to tank for mid lottery picks and the Jazz have done this two years in a row.

This is what has confused me; we’re currently 10th with one of the hardest schedules in the league left. Without making any moves and with great injury luck we’d still need to win a playin game or two to make the playoffs.

People act like we’re a top 4 team, we’re a long ways from that.

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

Problem is we are not selling off “some vets”.

We WERE a 500 team heading for the play-inns,(which would have been a priceless experience for most of these players and their coaches), that just got kneecapped by their own FO.

That makes me very angry yes and unless something pretty dramatic happens in the next half an hour to set this straight, I will remain very angry.

bkohler wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

It's just kind of directionless and the team feels weird.

Teams usually don't start as playoff teams and then trade away a ton of rotation guys to try to tank for mid lottery picks and the Jazz have done this two years in a row.

This is what has confused me; we’re currently 10th with one of the hardest schedules in the league left. Without making any moves and with great injury luck we’d still need to win a playin game or two to make the playoffs.

People act like we’re a top 4 team, we’re a long ways from that.

I mean, I guess, but it's just weird to intentionally miss the play-in to get like... the 8th pick, lol.

We intentionally missed the playoffs last year to get the 9th pick who has been... ehh in the G-League and that's pretty common for guys in the 6-10 range, there's not usually a ton of great players there. Hendricks can probably be an average starting PF one day and then maybe we can draft JaKobe Butler who can one day be an average starting SG but like... Not super exciting moves and feels very weird compared to both trying to win or trying to tank.

These half-tanks are weird.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

bkohler wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
It's just kind of directionless and the team feels weird.

Teams usually don't start as playoff teams and then trade away a ton of rotation guys to try to tank for mid lottery picks and the Jazz have done this two years in a row.

This is what has confused me; we’re currently 10th with one of the hardest schedules in the league left. Without making any moves and with great injury luck we’d still need to win a playin game or two to make the playoffs.

People act like we’re a top 4 team, we’re a long ways from that.

I mean, I guess, but it's just weird to intentionally miss the play-in to get like... the 8th pick, lol.

We intentionally missed the playoffs last year to get the 9th pick who has been... ehh in the G-League and that's pretty common for guys in the 6-10 range, there's not usually a ton of great players there. Hendricks can probably be an average starting PF one day and then maybe we can draft JaKobe Butler who can one day be an average starting SG but like... Not super exciting moves and feels very weird compared to both trying to win or trying to tank.

These half-tanks are weird.

I guess that’s where I see it differently. I don’t think these moves are about where we end up at the end of the year. I think they’re about getting value for players we weren’t going to resign.

I honestly think that there’s 50/50 odds we play at the about the same rate as we did in the rest of the year. A big part of that is Hardy is great and so is Lauri. If the floor of those two together isn’t far from our current ceiling why not sell off vets for value?

I think the Jazz sending their pick to OKC this year AND getting additional picks is the goal / hope.

bkohler wrote:This is what has confused me; we’re currently 10th with one of the hardest schedules in the league left. Without making any moves and with great injury luck we’d still need to win a playin game or two to make the playoffs.

People act like we’re a top 4 team, we’re a long ways from that.

On the other hand, if the Lakers don't make any trades our chances to remain in the play-in range would be pretty good.

Another thing is that pick the Jazz owe to OKC is hanging over their heads because it means until it's conveyed the Jazz can't trade their own picks, which limits their ability to execute a large trade, potentially. Additionally, since this is supposed to be a weak draft, this would be the year to convey the pick and get it over with. Instead the Jazz weaken themselves and increase their chance of keeping the pick. If they like this draft so much they should have tanked properly to begin with instead of once again tank for the 8-10 range.

The Jazz trading away so many guys but keeping Kris Dunn is a little weird.

The trade deadline is over and the Lakers haven't made any moves. I bet LeBron is pissed. I wonder what emoji he'll tweet next.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:The Jazz trading away so many guys but keeping Kris Dunn is a little weird.

I think Jazz clearly still plan to be competitive, hence keeping Dunn.....

RookieJazz wrote:

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

I am more than frustrated right now. Hoping someone offer 5 1st for Lauri and we can reset the team decently.

Exactly. Time to trade him till the value is high. This summer the latest, I' say. Only maybe not for 5 FRP, but for 15 or even 20 second rounders? Then next February will be good time to trade Kessler.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:The Jazz trading away so many guys but keeping Kris Dunn is a little weird.

They love Dunn. He makes it possible to play 3 guard lineups. His defense is what made Ochai expendable. Also I think Ochai's lack of ballhandling doomed him a bit here too.

If they weren't going to resign KO or Simone in the offseason it made sense to deal them now for draft picks. Ainge is looking 3-4 years down the road. He may have sacrificed a few wins this season but his ultimate goal is to keep acquiring assets to be really good down the road.

FJS wrote:I know there's some discussion in the other trade thread, but I would like to open this one to focus only in today.

We have traded Fontecchio. I think it's a mistake, since Knox is not useful in his career and other picks/rights doesn't seem useful either.
Simone was nothing spectacular, but he found his place and he was playing well at right price.
And it's important players that want to stay in Utah. Foreigners use to like this place.

So, let's gonna watch what happen today.

I hope Ainge doesn't destroy the team in purpose. We´ll see.

You are right, trading Fontecchio was a mistake on the basis of the current situation. Let's see...

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

I wouldn't call it a "meltdown" when people point out logical fallacies.

Hyperbole, eh?

HadAnEffectHere wrote:The Jazz trading away so many guys but keeping Kris Dunn is a little weird.

You need to elaborate on that.

Trading previously mentioned guys for nothing was weird, but trading Dunn for nothing would be moronic. He's playing better in every game than what his salary would suggest.

FranchisePlayer wrote:

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

I wouldn't call it a "meltdown" when people point out logical fallacies.

Hyperbole, eh?

I think it’s is possible for someone else to look at the same situation and come to another logical conclusion. Those don’t have to be inherently contradictory nor do we need to make assumptions that we’re punting this season.

We got value for players we weren’t going to resign. We had too many rotation quality players already. If we shorten the rotation there’s a decent chance we maintain the same level of play.

bkohler wrote:

FranchisePlayer wrote:

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

I wouldn't call it a "meltdown" when people point out logical fallacies.

Hyperbole, eh?

I think it’s is possible for someone else to look at the same situation and come to another logical conclusion. Those don’t have to be inherently contradictory nor do we need to make assumptions that we’re punting this season.

We got value for players we weren’t going to resign. We had too many rotation quality players already. If we shorten the rotation there’s a decent chance we maintain the same level of play.

Fair enough.

However, seems to me that the collective majority ranting about it sees before mentioned trades as something that, if everything goes well at maximum, will keep status quo. In general the idea in trading is to improve your team.

But before we get too much ahead of ourselves, let's see how things develop from here. My expectations are not high, to say the least.

Thoughts on Agbaji?

Thought he was a fine player at KU but haven't paid much attention to him in the NBA.

LoveMyRaps wrote:Thoughts on Agbaji?

Thought he was a fine player at KU but haven't paid much attention to him in the NBA.

Hasn't developed as a ball-handler, which has been a disappointment, and is the key thing holding him back...... Decent shooter and tries hard on defense, has good physical tools......

HadAnEffectHere wrote:

bkohler wrote:

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
It's just kind of directionless and the team feels weird.

Teams usually don't start as playoff teams and then trade away a ton of rotation guys to try to tank for mid lottery picks and the Jazz have done this two years in a row.

This is what has confused me; we’re currently 10th with one of the hardest schedules in the league left. Without making any moves and with great injury luck we’d still need to win a playin game or two to make the playoffs.

People act like we’re a top 4 team, we’re a long ways from that.

I mean, I guess, but it's just weird to intentionally miss the play-in to get like... the 8th pick, lol.

We intentionally missed the playoffs last year to get the 9th pick who has been... ehh in the G-League and that's pretty common for guys in the 6-10 range, there's not usually a ton of great players there. Hendricks can probably be an average starting PF one day and then maybe we can draft JaKobe Butler who can one day be an average starting SG but like... Not super exciting moves and feels very weird compared to both trying to win or trying to tank.

These half-tanks are weird.

Not sure why people are writing off the jazz still making playoffs this year. I think we got talent back and still can make a push. some times new blood and new location brings fire and opportunity for others. I've seen Otto and Knox play good games and fresh place might be a good change. Time will tell.

bkohler wrote:

FranchisePlayer wrote:

bkohler wrote:The collective meltdown and anger over a 500 team selling off some vets is kinda funny.

I wouldn't call it a "meltdown" when people point out logical fallacies.

Hyperbole, eh?

I think it’s is possible for someone else to look at the same situation and come to another logical conclusion. Those don’t have to be inherently contradictory nor do we need to make assumptions that we’re punting this season.

We got value for players we weren’t going to resign. We had too many rotation quality players already. If we shorten the rotation there’s a decent chance we maintain the same level of play.

The value we got for players we weren’t going to resign is minimal and doesn’t weigh up against the loss of chemistry we had in that locker room or the experience we could have built with the play inns.
If we had too many rotation quality players, the first guy to ship out should have been THT. He wanted out and hadn’t played for months but he is still on board. Why? Meanwhile guys that played their buds off were shipped out for peanuts.
Yes, it’s a business and we cleared some more cap space but it cuts both ways. What kind of message did the FO just send to the NBA? Come and play for the Jazz? And what kind of message did the FO just send to the fans? Buy season tickets? And what kind of message to the locker room and coaching staff? Win but not too often? Score but not too much?

I hope this doesn’t bite them in the ass when it comes to extending LM or others…I know I would think twice now…

Stupid moves going against the Jazz culture.

AGE1207 wrote:

bkohler wrote:

FranchisePlayer wrote:
I wouldn't call it a "meltdown" when people point out logical fallacies.

Hyperbole, eh?

I think it’s is possible for someone else to look at the same situation and come to another logical conclusion. Those don’t have to be inherently contradictory nor do we need to make assumptions that we’re punting this season.

We got value for players we weren’t going to resign. We had too many rotation quality players already. If we shorten the rotation there’s a decent chance we maintain the same level of play.

The value we got for players we weren’t going to resign is minimal and doesn’t weigh up against the loss of chemistry we had in that locker room or the experience we could have built with the play inns.
If we had too many rotation quality players, the first guy to ship out should have been THT. He wanted out and hadn’t played for months but he is still on board. Why? Meanwhile guys that played their buds off were shipped out for peanuts.
Yes, it’s a business and we cleared some more cap space but it cuts both ways. What kind of message did the FO just send to the NBA? Come and play for the Jazz? And what kind of message did the FO just send to the fans? Buy season tickets? And what kind of message to the locker room and coaching staff? Win but not too often? Score but not too much?

I hope this doesn’t bite them in the ass when it comes to extending LM or others…I know I would think twice now…

Stupid moves going against the Jazz culture.

Think lock is right and break it down great in why players were moved.