Hey, Hawks fan here

[benhillboy]

I’d surely appreciate it if you all could provide a little feedback on Quinn Snyder’s time there. I’m familiar with his great developmental effects as an assistant under Bud but know very little of him as a Head.

Can I expect a crap ton of corner threes? The Hawks could definitely use about 3-4 more per.

Who’s the most notable healthy player he’s sent to the G-League?

What is his timeout calling style?

Is he stubborn or indifferent to guards rebounding/ boxing out?

[pickIBL]

Great coach. My understanding is his mistook superglue for hair gel and just needed a few months off.

[bkohler]

Other's will be able to contribute more but a few things I know:

- The Jazz lead the league in 3pt taken the last few years under Quin.
- It might be Gobert but Quin ran looottss of pick and roll with lots of plays starting in horns with guard to guard screens followed by a traditional small/big screen.
- Lots and lots of ball screens, again hard to know how much of that was Quin and how much was personnel.
- Qunns offense worked best with people making quick decisions and everyone moving the ball. It really broke down when Mitchell held the ball and tried to do iso stuff
- He really likes to play with pace and get people into the 'blender' where defenses are collapsing attempting to follow the ball as it whips from one side of the court to the other, resulting in lots of open threes.
- As for most notable players sent to the G-league I think it would either by Grayson Allen or Dante Exum.

Overall Quin is great. He seems to struggle a bit with in game adjustments but is amazing at adjusting in between games. He's willing to try unorthodox things, like guarding Harden from behind.

His biggest downside might be the complexity of his offense requires a lot from players. He's intense which sometimes rubs players the wrong way and he's not as great at in game adjustments as you'd hope for. He also put certain players in his doghouse and there wasn't anything they could do to get out of it.

Again, it's really hard to distinguish some of these from the players he had. So much of the system that he had to run was because of Gobert. I was disappointed when he left Utah, but not heartbroken - If that gives you any feel for things!


Edit: Few other things I've just remembered
1. One of the issues that seemed to linger behind the scenes was Quin's (quiet) beef with the front office. It got to a Me or You point eventually.
2. Quin was pretty stubborn about playing two bigs for a while as well as a few other odd rotation choices. It seemed that the FO had to step in and make some trades to get the rotation they were looking for.
3. I've struggled to think of a player (besides Exum whose injuries tanked him) that really struggled under Quin compared to expectations. He seemed to help most of his players exceed expectations. There's a long list of players that grew substantially under Quin: Gobert, Hayward, Oneale, Mitchell, Clarkson, Niang. But there's also a few big name guards that really struggled: Burkes, Burks, Exum, Conley.
4. When you're getting Quin you're going to get competence but maybe not excellence. That remains to be seen but I don't think the Hawks will be bad under him his entire tenure, just not sure if they'll be championship level either.
5. Quin always professed a love of play-making 4's the Jazz just never really had any (besides maybe Bogey?)

[AingesBurner]

Other's will be able to contribute more but a few things I know:

- The Jazz lead the league in 3pt taken the last few years under Quin.
- It might be Gobert but Quin ran looottss of pick and roll with lots of plays starting in horns with guard to guard screens followed by a traditional small/big screen.
- Lots and lots of ball screens, again hard to know how much of that was Quin and how much was personnel.
- Qunns offense worked best with people making quick decisions and everyone moving the ball. It really broke down when Mitchell held the ball and tried to do iso stuff
- He really likes to play with pace and get people into the 'blender' where defenses are collapsing attempting to follow the ball as it whips from one side of the court to the other, resulting in lots of open threes.
- As for most notable players sent to the G-league I think it would either by Grayson Allen or Dante Exum.

Overall Quin is great. He seems to struggle a bit with in game adjustments but is amazing at adjusting in between games. He's willing to try unorthodox things, like guarding Harden from behind.

His biggest downside might be the complexity of his offense requires a lot from players. He's intense which sometimes rubs players the wrong way and he's not as great at in game adjustments as you'd hope for. He also put certain players in his doghouse and there wasn't anything they could do to get out of it.

Again, it's really hard to distinguish some of these from the players he had. So much of the system that he had to run was because of Gobert. I was disappointed when he left Utah, but not heartbroken - If that gives you any feel for things!


Edit: Few other things I've just remembered
1. One of the issues that seemed to linger behind the scenes was Quin's (quiet) beef with the front office. It got to a Me or You point eventually.
2. Quin was pretty stubborn about playing two bigs for a while as well as a few other odd rotation choices. It seemed that the FO had to step in and make some trades to get the rotation they were looking for.
3. I've struggled to think of a player (besides Exum whose injuries tanked him) that really struggled under Quin compared to expectations. He seemed to help most of his players exceed expectations. There's a long list of players that grew substantially under Quin: Gobert, Hayward, Oneale, Mitchell, Clarkson, Niang. But there's also a few big name guards that really struggled: Burkes, Burks, Exum, Conley.
4. When you're getting Quin you're going to get competence but maybe not excellence. That remains to be seen but I don't think the Hawks will be bad under him his entire tenure, just not sure if they'll be championship level either.
5. Quin always professed a love of play-making 4's the Jazz just never really had any (besides maybe Bogey?)

All pretty spot on here. I personally think Quin’s lack of substitutions is because of team build. Dennis Lindsey wasted so many 1st round picks on PG’s and dumping Favors; I think he traded 4 or 5 1st round picks for PG’s and to dump Favors. If we just went for a star such as Jrue instead of Rubio, Conley, Hill, and re-signing Favors once we brought him back. Utah lost so many assets to Dennis Lindsey’s bad team building.

[bkohler]

Yeah, it's impossible to judge the Quin/Gobert/Mitchell years without acknowledging that Lindsey wasted a tremendous amount of assets on bandaids at the PG position and then wasted even more assets trying to fix his mistakes. There's a long list of what-ifs down this path.

Had the Jazz better used that draft capital, Quin might have been lauded even more or viewed as a failure. Either way, his time with Utah gets close to an 'incomplete' grade when determining his upside. His floor is very high, however.

[zero24gravity]

I posted just recently on the Hawks board about this same subject, and gave my 2 cents. I've got nothing but love for the man. He will always be part of the Jazz family in my eyes.

[benhillboy]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. 108 games over .500 during his tenure there isn’t anything to sneeze at, I didn’t realize he was that successful. I can see your gripes with roster construction during his tenure, I’ve never been a Gobert supporter, much less so for Rubio. Always was a Bojan fan and those Hayward two hand dunks off the euro was one of my absolute favorite plays of that time.

He’s got his work cut out for him in terms of guards in ball screens. Trae and DJ aren’t those dudes lol. If he could get spirited off ball play from both he would definitely be the perfect hire. I would love to see John Collins (and everyone in the front court for that matter) improve just a tad as playmaking threats. I thought with his extensive G League background he would’ve sent a starter or two down. AJ Griffin and Jalen Johnson, already solid young rotational guys, could benefit from a stint next season.

[bkohler]

I’m unsure how call ups were handled by the Jazz during Quins tenure. He might not have had autonomy to send down and call up whoever he’d like.

It feels like the reason Quin isn’t here anymore is that he wanted more control and the FO wasn’t willing to give it.

[Inigo Montoya]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. 108 games over .500 during his tenure there isn’t anything to sneeze at, I didn’t realize he was that successful. I can see your gripes with roster construction during his tenure, I’ve never been a Gobert supporter, much less so for Rubio. Always was a Bojan fan and those Hayward two hand dunks off the euro was one of my absolute favorite plays of that time.

He’s got his work cut out for him in terms of guards in ball screens. Trae and DJ aren’t those dudes lol. If he could get spirited off ball play from both he would definitely be the perfect hire. I would love to see John Collins (and everyone in the front court for that matter) improve just a tad as playmaking threats. I thought with his extensive G League background he would’ve sent a starter or two down. AJ Griffin and Jalen Johnson, already solid young rotational guys, could benefit from a stint next season.

I wrote a very long post explaining why I think Snyder is an over-rated coach but I accidentally pressed the wrong button and it got deleted. So in short I'll say he's not a bad coach, probably above average but imho he's not a top tier coach or some savant/prodigy.

As Hawks fans, I think you should ask yourselves what is it that you're expecting the team could do with new coach. Do you have title aspirations with this roster, or do you just expect a competitive playoff team? You might get the latter, but I wouldn't expect the former.

[benhillboy]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. 108 games over .500 during his tenure there isn’t anything to sneeze at, I didn’t realize he was that successful. I can see your gripes with roster construction during his tenure, I’ve never been a Gobert supporter, much less so for Rubio. Always was a Bojan fan and those Hayward two hand dunks off the euro was one of my absolute favorite plays of that time.

He’s got his work cut out for him in terms of guards in ball screens. Trae and DJ aren’t those dudes lol. If he could get spirited off ball play from both he would definitely be the perfect hire. I would love to see John Collins (and everyone in the front court for that matter) improve just a tad as playmaking threats. I thought with his extensive G League background he would’ve sent a starter or two down. AJ Griffin and Jalen Johnson, already solid young rotational guys, could benefit from a stint next season.

I wrote a very long post explaining why I think Snyder is an over-rated coach but I accidentally pressed the wrong button and it got deleted. So in short I'll say he's not a bad coach, probably above average but imho he's not a top tier coach or some savant/prodigy.

As Hawks fans, I think you should ask yourselves what is it that you're expecting the team could do with new coach. Do you have title aspirations with this roster, or do you just expect a competitive playoff team? You might get the latter, but I wouldn't expect the former.

Lol, I just had a couple paragraphs going and it deleted my post automatically. RealGM really needs to improve its information system.

But yeah certainly not expecting a deep run or nothing, the Hawks are chock full of neutral impact guys (see the perfect 0 team net rating as of today). If I can see a +2.5 point differential over these last 21 games I’d be ecstatic.

[babyjax13]

I think Quin is one of the best coaches in the league. Most of the issues with our team in the playoffs were due to roster construction that couldn't be fixed with clever rotations or different looks. If he had Rudy rotating out, no one on the team (other than Royce) was a good enough individual defender to give any resistance on drives. In the playoffs, the goal was to have Rudy switching onto anyone who touched paint, and have the rest of the team rotate. The rest of the team did not rotate, nor did they slow players down, so he was left defending everyone. I think the Hawks have more individually good defenders (also a lot of terribad ones) and obviously no Gobert. That formula may work better because the defense won't just be on one player when everyone else gives up.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think Quin is one of the best coaches in the league. Most of the issues with our team in the playoffs were due to roster construction that couldn't be fixed with clever rotations or different looks.

I disagree on both counts. In fact, I'd argue that the team's issues in the playoffs clearly show that he isn't one of the best coaches in the league.

We didn't complain about roster construction when we were leading the Nuggets 3-1. That wasn't an issue then. That we managed to lose this series is a black mark in Snyder's resume. There is no excuse for him to be unable to bring the Jazz to close out the series. And in the end he was out-coached.

When the Clippers lost Leonard, all excuses about roster construction went out the window--the Jazz should have been more that able to take advantage and win that series. That series was a good example of Snyder's weaknesses in in-game adjustments, and also blows a hole in the argument that he's 'amazing at adjusting in between games.' It's another black mark in his resume and another series in which he was out-coached.

Do I really need to bring up the Mavs series? The Jazz were heavy favorites, especially when Doncic was out and roster construction wasn't the reason why we lost to the Mavs in 6 games when Doncic missed 3. It's another black mark on his resume and another series in which he was out-coached.

By the end of his tenure, he was unable to make players put in consistent effort or execute what he wanted. He seemed to have lost the locker room during the regular season, and during his tenure there was a consistent criticism of him being unable to make the players give consistent effort.

[babyjax13]

I think Quin is one of the best coaches in the league. Most of the issues with our team in the playoffs were due to roster construction that couldn't be fixed with clever rotations or different looks.

I disagree on both counts. In fact, I'd argue that the team's issues in the playoffs clearly show that he isn't one of the best coaches in the league.

We didn't complain about roster construction when we were leading the Nuggets 3-1. That wasn't an issue then. That we managed to lose this series is a black mark in Snyder's resume. There is no excuse for him to be unable to bring the Jazz to close out the series. And in the end he was out-coached.

When the Clippers lost Leonard, all excuses about roster construction went out the window--the Jazz should have been more that able to take advantage and win that series. That series was a good example of Snyder's weaknesses in in-game adjustments, and also blows a hole in the argument that he's 'amazing at adjusting in between games.' It's another black mark in his resume and another series in which he was out-coached.

Do I really need to bring up the Mavs series? The Jazz were heavy favorites, especially when Doncic was out and roster construction wasn't the reason why we lost to the Mavs in 6 games when Doncic missed 3. It's another black mark on his resume and another series in which he was out-coached.

By the end of his tenure, he was unable to make players put in consistent effort or execute what he wanted. He seemed to have lost the locker room during the regular season, and during his tenure there was a consistent criticism of him being unable to make the players give consistent effort.

How we managed to get up 3-1 with major injuries is a credit to Snyder, at the time most people (including most Utah fans) expected us to lose that series pretty easily. We were an 8 second violation away from a sweep.

In the Clippers and Mavs series there were no adjustments to make, and we absolutely lost both due to roster construction. The team did not rotate at all on defense, they just allowed free drives to the rim, and part of that was that there were no perimeter defenders on the team. RE: effort, I don't blame that on coaching, I blame that on players, and specifically the issues between Mitchell and Gobert.

[zero24gravity]

I think Quin is one of the best coaches in the league. Most of the issues with our team in the playoffs were due to roster construction that couldn't be fixed with clever rotations or different looks. If he had Rudy rotating out, no one on the team (other than Royce) was a good enough individual defender to give any resistance on drives. In the playoffs, the goal was to have Rudy switching onto anyone who touched paint, and have the rest of the team rotate. The rest of the team did not rotate, nor did they slow players down, so he was left defending everyone. I think the Hawks have more individually good defenders (also a lot of terribad ones) and obviously no Gobert. That formula may work better because the defense won't just be on one player when everyone else gives up.

Agreed. Q was not the issue. He's a top-tier coach.

[Crunch 99]

I am a little bit surprised that Quin jumped on this open Hawks' job. I thought he had a high enough reputation to be very selective. Trae Young is a one way superstar, so coaching the Hawks to the top is a much more difficult proposition than if your leading star is a better two way player.

I wonder if this was Coach McMillan's last head coaching job. I've always liked him and his connection to the Sloan era as a SuperSonics player and team captain. I thought he was unfairly fired from the head coaching job at Indiana, where he was doing a really good job.

[Inigo Montoya]

I am a little bit surprised that Quin jumped on this open Hawks' job. I thought he had a high enough reputation to be very selective. Trae Young is a one way superstar, so coaching the Hawks to the top is a much more difficult proposition than if your leading star is a great two way player.

IIRC he was an assistant coach for the Hawks so maybe he likes it there and he has a certain familiarity with the organization. Besides, I'd say he was very selective. He signed a 5-year deal at $8M per year which makes him one of the highest paid coaches in the league, in an organization he has past working experience with. That looks pretty selective to me and I doubt he'd find a better offer out there in terms of money and long-term security.

[Crunch 99]

I am a little bit surprised that Quin jumped on this open Hawks' job. I thought he had a high enough reputation to be very selective. Trae Young is a one way superstar, so coaching the Hawks to the top is a much more difficult proposition than if your leading star is a better two way player.

IIRC he was an assistant coach for the Hawks so maybe he likes it there and he has a certain familiarity with the organization. Besides, I'd say he was very selective. He signed a 5-year deal at $8M per year which makes him one of the highest paid coaches in the league, in an organization he has past working experience with. That looks pretty selective to me and I doubt he'd find a better offer out there in terms of money and long-term security.

Good points. He was very selective in checking the boxes you mention, but imho, I don't think he was very selective about choosing a team that is already a serious contender or close to being a serious contender.

I read an article somewhere recently that concluded that part of the reason Nate was fired was because management saw the Hawks make it it to the ECF a couple of years ago, and believe the current Hawks are seriously underperforming at only eighth place. Given the Hawks' roster and the rest of the talent in the East and around the league, I don't see a .500 record and eighth place as a big underperformance for the Hawks. And it's only a small sample, but Quinn is just 3-5 with the Hawks so far.

In fairness to the Nate-firing topic, I also saw at least one other article suggest that Nate had lost a good, communicative working relationship with Trae Young and some team members, and claim that was the reason for Nate's firing.

[Crunch 99]

Quin ended up with a 13-15, .468 22-23 regular season record and first round, 2-4 loss to Celtics versus Nate's 29-30, .492 22-23 regular season record and first round, 1-4 loss to Heat last season. By record, there is no improvement so far. I think they are both good coaches, but the Hawks' roster simply isn't that great.

With openings now at Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Phoenix and Toronto, and maybe an upcoming opening at Boston as well, I wonder if Quin has any second thoughts about jumping on the Atlanta job. He got a very lucrative five year deal that sets him up financially for life though, so maybe not.

[Inigo Montoya]

Quin ended up with a 13-15 .468 22-23 regular season record and first round, 2-4 loss to Celtics versus Nate's 29-30 .492 22-23 regular season record and first round, 1-4 loss to Heat last season. By record, there is no improvement so far. I think they are both good coaches, but the Hawks' roster simply isn't that great.

With openings now at Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Phoenix and Toronto, and maybe an upcoming opening at Boston as well, I wonder if Quin has any second thoughts about jumping on the Atlanta job. He got a very lucrative five year deal that sets him up financially for life though, so maybe not.

Yep, with how things shaped up he may have missed on a more competitive situation. I think he would have gotten the same amount of money per year anywhere, but perhaps less years overall. Some coaching changes were expected to happen once the season is over but I think we are all surprised by which coaches ended up parting ways with their teams.

As for the Hawks, they may be better next season but I don't expect them to make it past the second round. I don't see them being a real threat.

[bkohler]

Quin ended up with a 13-15, .468 22-23 regular season record and first round, 2-4 loss to Celtics versus Nate's 29-30, .492 22-23 regular season record and first round, 1-4 loss to Heat last season. By record, there is no improvement so far. I think they are both good coaches, but the Hawks' roster simply isn't that great.

With openings now at Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Phoenix and Toronto, and maybe an upcoming opening at Boston as well, I wonder if Quin has any second thoughts about jumping on the Atlanta job. He got a very lucrative five year deal that sets him up financially for life though, so maybe not.

I understand that Quin wanted more roster control, which is something he now has (allegedly) in ATL. I'm not sure he would have gotten that in any of those other locations. Picking a team with a very young GM that will commit to giving you the keys seems like exactly the right spot for what he was after. I'm not convinced that will lead to winning but our desires are often not aligned with our best interests.