WOJ: Collins to Utah

AingesBurner · Post #1 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:50 pm

Utah sends Gay and a 2nd for Collins. Odd trade considering we just got Hendricks.

vtime · Post #2 » by **vtime** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:59 pm

Makes perfect sense. They will try to win and Hendricks can come along slowly and progress naturally instead of being forced into a huge role. When he is ready, Collins or could be moved for assets if necessary or continue to rotate those 4 along the frontline.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #3 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 5:59 pm

Yeah, this move sucks.

No idea why we're getting all these horrible passers on our team.

Who is supposed to pass to Markkanen, Collins, Kessler, Hendricks, or Agbaji?

D Rog · Post #4 » by **D Rog** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:04 pm

Jazz give up nothing to try to get Collins back on track. Still need a PG

mark53 · Post #5 » by **mark53** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:07 pm

I like the price but yeah it does not help Hedricks. I hope he's not on the move. But I don't mind Collins in this offense. In Ainge I trust

Post #6 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:18 pm

It makes sense as a buy low move, and loading up on players that can be used later in a trade package for a star.

Other than that, I agree that it doesn't make much sense given the draft we just had. I'm assuming other trades will happen, otherwise Hendricks will be behind Collins and Olynyk.

AingesBurner · Post #7 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:20 pm

This could be a rehab play for great value and if Collins helps us net Luka in a year, so be it.

ForeverRDjazz · Post #8 » by **ForeverRDjazz** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:24 pm

I love moving Rudy and a second is nothing. Hawks just wanted to lower the damage. Jazz moves Favors it cost us a 1st round pick. Glad old GM is gone! I'm not sure Collins will be in the starting lineup. Over all I love this move.

Post #9 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:27 pm

It just dawned on me that Snyder amd Gay didn't really got along when they were both with the Jazz and that Snyder hardly played Gay. I think this trade may have screwed Rudy in terms of destination and fit.

AingesBurner · Post #10 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:33 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:It just dawned on me that Snyder amd Gay didn't really got along when they were both with the Jazz and that Snyder hardly played Gay. I think this trade may have screwed Rudy in terms of destination and fit.

Buyout

SoCalJazzFan · Post #11 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:45 pm

I'm not up on the new CBA, but my understanding is that by the start of the season all teams must have at least 90% of salary cap in signed players on their roster, which is a big change from the past where teams could carry a large chunk of cap space with an eye to the trade deadline in Feb (and what I was hoping the Jazz would do).

Excluding the PO players (Gay, THT, Clarkson) and adding in the 3 newly drafted players, yesterday the Jazz had a team salary of only $74M. The salary cap is $136M.

With this trade, the Jazz now have 14 players on their roster (not counting THT or Clarkson) and a team salary of just over $99M.

If I'm not mistaken, that leaves 1 roster spot and an additional $23M in one or more contracts that needs to be doled out to meet the $122M minimum salary floor of the new CBA. Three of the players (Dunn, Samanic and Vernon) are NG contracts and at risk of being cut if both THT and Clarkson opt in and/or the Jazz sign more than 1 new player as there can only be 15 players on the roster.

In light of the above, Collins for his cost and potential upside or trade value makes a lot of sense.

vtime · Post #12 » by **vtime** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:48 pm

Could resign Clarkson, if not I see a strong 10.

C Kessler/KO
PF Collins/Hendricks
SF Lauri/Sensabaugh
SG Agbaji George
PG THT/Sexton

Probably at least one more move coming that could cut perimeter time for the rookie wings.

Rauxcee · Post #13 » by **Rauxcee** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:50 pm

Meh. At least we gave up nothing. I'd really rather have had Hendricks get the minutes. I don't think Collins helps that much, but probably gets more wins then the Jazz need.

Personally don't think the Jazz should be attempting to get into the playoffs yet- they just blew up the previous team for not being able to get out of the 1st round. This teams ceiling is a first round exit at best, and is a team full of role players. They need that star player through the draft.

Just, meh on the teams direction.

AingesBurner · Post #14 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:53 pm

Rauxcee wrote:Meh. At least we gave up nothing. I'd really rather have had Hendricks get the minutes. I don't think Collins helps that much, but probably gets more wins then the Jazz need.

Personally don't think the Jazz should be attempting to get into the playoffs yet- they just blew up the previous team for not being able to get out of the 1st round. This teams ceiling is a first round exit at best, and is a team full of role players. They need that star player through the draft.

Just, meh on the teams direction.

Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

Rauxcee · Post #15 » by **Rauxcee** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:56 pm

AingesBurner wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:Meh. At least we gave up nothing. I'd really rather have had Hendricks get the minutes. I don't think Collins helps that much, but probably gets more wins then the Jazz need.

Personally don't think the Jazz should be attempting to get into the playoffs yet- they just blew up the previous team for not being able to get out of the 1st round. This teams ceiling is a first round exit at best, and is a team full of role players. They need that star player through the draft.

Just, meh on the teams direction.

Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

AingesBurner · Post #16 » by **AingesBurner** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:58 pm

Rauxcee wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:Meh. At least we gave up nothing. I'd really rather have had Hendricks get the minutes. I don't think Collins helps that much, but probably gets more wins then the Jazz need.

Personally don't think the Jazz should be attempting to get into the playoffs yet- they just blew up the previous team for not being able to get out of the 1st round. This teams ceiling is a first round exit at best, and is a team full of role players. They need that star player through the draft.

Just, meh on the teams direction.

Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

No… We have a ton of assets and firsts became even more valuable after the new CBA. Gotta think long term.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #17 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:01 pm

Rauxcee wrote:Meh. At least we gave up nothing. I'd really rather have had Hendricks get the minutes. I don't think Collins helps that much, but probably gets more wins then the Jazz need.

Personally don't think the Jazz should be attempting to get into the playoffs yet- they just blew up the previous team for not being able to get out of the 1st round. This teams ceiling is a first round exit at best, and is a team full of role players. They need that star player through the draft.

Just, meh on the teams direction.

The 2024 draft is supposed to be weak. While the Jazz could potentially end up keeping their top 10 protected pick by not signing anyone, even with the players they have they might not keep it as they have some good players, and they would probably not be drafting at the very top without lottery luck. The 2025 draft is supposed to be good, so if they can convey their 2024 pick to OKC, it would set them up to have 3 first round picks in 2025.

Also, see my message above with respect to having to have a roster having at least 90% of the salary cap before the season starts. They had to sign someone having a decently sized contract (they need another still).

Post #18 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:04 pm

Next year's draft is supposed to be weak and OKC owns our pick. I'm not extatic about this move but it doesn't offend me either. We'd probably be at the 9th-10th pick range next season without this trade anyway. At least the cost was low.

Rauxcee · Post #19 » by **Rauxcee** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:06 pm

AingesBurner wrote:
Rauxcee wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:
Ainge has stated this is a 2-3 year rebuild. Drafting potential is not a 2-3 year rebuild. Did you read the Book of Ainge?

I guess he's rebuilding us back to being perennial first round exits then.

No… We have a ton of assets and firsts became even more valuable after the new CBA. Gotta think long term.

Assets don't mean anything in hypothetical scenarios. Maybe we use our assests to get a star player. Maybe we misuse our assests instead, and get a player who doesn't help. Maybe our assets get out bid by a team with better assest like OKC. Don't get me wrong- I would much prefer to have assets versus not- but until they convey it doesn't mean much.

I can only judge the players we have, not unknown players we may never get. (Draft picks are also unknown- but they are Utah's best chance at star players)

red4hf · Post #20 » by **red4hf** » Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:06 pm

At least we have a decent frontcourt rotation now.........