Game 54: Utah Jazz (26-27) vs Golden State Warriors (25-25)

[Inigo Montoya]

The Jazz will have two home games against the Warriors within a week (including this one), and they may be the most important games of the season when it comes to their play-in chances. Winning both of them would be a boost, and every loss will hurt their chances badly. They will still have to play the Warriors twice on the road including the last game of the season.

[Crunch 99]

The Feb. 15th game versus the Warriors is the makeup game for the missed Jan 17 game versus the Warriors. A lot has changed since Jan 17, positive for the Warriors and negative for the Jazz.

For the Warriors, youngsters Kuminga and Podzmieski have emerged as solid, significant contributors playing big minutes, 34 and 33 mpg respectively; Draymond Green has found his game rhythm and role after being out with suspension; Andrew Wiggins is playing well the last ten games, scoring 14.3 ppg on 53/41/80 splits; Gary Payton ll has returned to active status to play defense and Klay Thompson has finally acknowledged that he isn't a star anymore and has agreed to play varying roles from game to game.

On the Jazz side, we just lost three major rotation players, Font, Olynyk and Ochai, and have only had a chance to play one game with the new lineups.

Given these challenging circumstances, I would be very happy if we managed a split with the Warriors.

[FJS]

Difficult one. The only good thing is we are playing at home.

Although GSW is winning, they have won vs weak teams lately, but Indy. To be fair they have won in places where we lost (@sixers, @nets) but those teams are losing lately too.

We'll see... I don't know what to expect.

[red4hf]

Zone against Curry, here it comes......

[TNJazz]

Difficult one. The only good thing is we are playing at home.

Although GSW is winning, they have won vs weak teams lately, but Indy. To be fair they have won in places where we lost (@sixers, @nets) but those teams are losing lately too.

We'll see... I don't know what to expect.

After losing 3 important rotation players, I am not sure the Jazz aren't considered one of the weaker teams now. They were once again a "feel good" team that was overachieving compared to the preseason W-L numbers. They have already surpassed the mark of 25 wins, wish I had bet on that!!!! Now the season is looking like a rinse and repeat from last year. Feel good, show improvement, trade players, tank for future We shall see how they insert the young players to see what they have (I don't get why they don't already know) but more importantly what is the message being sent to the core players. And outside of Maarkanen who is considered core?

[Wolverine]

Read on Twitter

[bkohler]

Read on Twitter

I find this really interesting, as Tech and Olynyk were good.. but it's not like the team lost star players.

It really feels like starting Keyonte over Dunn would get me down as a player more than the trades, IMO.

[FJS]

Dunn, kessler, tht were neutral or positive... But they played less minutes than other that were outplayed badly.
It's not lockerroom frustated... It's everyone around.
We are frustated. We are trhowing another year.
Hendricks is frustating. George is frustating. I hate to see this team at this stage of the season.
Ainge wake Up this summer.

[red4hf]

Dunn, kessler, tht were neutral or positive... But they played less minutes than other that were outplayed badly.
It's not lockerroom frustated... It's everyone around.
We are frustated. We are trhowing another year.
Hendricks is frustating. George is frustating. I hate to see this team at this stage of the season.
Ainge wake Up this summer.

The only thing I'd add to this is that Hardy needs to wake up as well......

[Crunch 99]

I didn't see the game, but I was just driving in my car and the am radio sports guy said that it was evident that Ainge ripped the spirit out of the team at the trade deadline, and that they no longer believe they have a chance to compete to get to the play-in.

[bkohler]

Dunn, kessler, tht were neutral or positive... But they played less minutes than other that were outplayed badly.
It's not lockerroom frustated... It's everyone around.
We are frustated. We are trhowing another year.
Hendricks is frustating. George is frustating. I hate to see this team at this stage of the season.
Ainge wake Up this summer.

Throwing another year? You realize we hadn’t played better than .500 basketball in weeks and there was a good chance we would be in this position regardless. We weren’t good; go back a few years and we’re no where near a playoff team but the playin has people happy with the 10th spot.

[bkohler]

Something I don’t understand as I didn’t watch the game yet, but I’ve seen many calling out Hendricks for being lost; but he was only a -2 for the game and Collins was -27!

[vryadli]

Dunn, kessler, tht were neutral or positive... But they played less minutes than other that were outplayed badly.
It's not lockerroom frustated... It's everyone around.
We are frustated. We are trhowing another year.
Hendricks is frustating. George is frustating. I hate to see this team at this stage of the season.
Ainge wake Up this summer.

Throwing another year? You realize we hadn’t played better than .500 basketball in weeks and there was a good chance we would be in this position regardless. We weren’t good; go back a few years and we’re no where near a playoff team but the playin has people happy with the 10th spot.

He woke up number of times recently , and I'd say he better was sleeping.

[FJS]

Dunn, kessler, tht were neutral or positive... But they played less minutes than other that were outplayed badly.
It's not lockerroom frustated... It's everyone around.
We are frustated. We are trhowing another year.
Hendricks is frustating. George is frustating. I hate to see this team at this stage of the season.
Ainge wake Up this summer.

Throwing another year? You realize we hadn’t played better than .500 basketball in weeks and there was a good chance we would be in this position regardless. We weren’t good; go back a few years and we’re no where near a playoff team but the playin has people happy with the 10th spot.

At one point this season we were 7 - 16, then we were 19-10 to be 26-26. So yes, we were a 50%, but playing 66% ball in the last 29.

It's like Prometheus torture... when you heal, someone is hurting you another time.

We have gifted Royce O'Neal X Sensabaugh.
We have gifted Vando, Naw, Conley and Beasley for a top 4 protected pick.
We have gifted Bogdanovic for Olynyk, then him for Otto Porter Jr. And we let him go for free, so it's Bojan for a 2nd round pick.

And after those trades it's
Mitchell for Lauri and Sexton (ochai is gifted) and some picks
Gobert for Kessler, George and some picks


If you aren't mad, then you are a quiet man.

They say it's about evolution of George and Hendricks... but I don't think they are going to be nothing special, showing what they are showing.

[bkohler]

Dunn, kessler, tht were neutral or positive... But they played less minutes than other that were outplayed badly.
It's not lockerroom frustated... It's everyone around.
We are frustated. We are trhowing another year.
Hendricks is frustating. George is frustating. I hate to see this team at this stage of the season.
Ainge wake Up this summer.

Throwing another year? You realize we hadn’t played better than .500 basketball in weeks and there was a good chance we would be in this position regardless. We weren’t good; go back a few years and we’re no where near a playoff team but the playin has people happy with the 10th spot.

At one point this season we were 7 - 16, then we were 19-10 to be 26-26. So yes, we were a 50%, but playing 66% ball in the last 29.

It's like Prometheus torture... when you heal, someone is hurting you another time.

We have gifted Royce O'Neal X Sensabaugh.
We have gifted Vando, Naw, Conley and Beasley for a top 4 protected pick.
We have gifted Bogdanovic for Olynyk, then him for Otto Porter Jr. And we let him go for free, so it's Bojan for a 2nd round pick.

And after those trades it's
Mitchell for Lauri and Sexton (ochai is gifted) and some picks
Gobert for Kessler, George and some picks


If you aren't mad, then you are a quiet man.

They say it's about evolution of George and Hendricks... but I don't think they are going to be nothing special, showing what they are showing.

What would you have done differently? Run it back with Mitchell / Gobert?

A reset was needed, we could have gone the route of just letting all those players expire and not resign them, instead we got value for them. Bogey and Royce were both just moved for 2nds.

Is your complaint about the draft? I suppose we could have picked different players but it doesn’t seem like there were many below Keyonte and Hendricks that have drastically performed better?

Honestly we sound like the entitled lakers fans we all make fun of. We have one of the best front offices in the league, one of the best coaches and were gifted one of the best players in Lauri.

I’ve missed when we somehow became the 76ers of the 2010s or the pistons of today by selecting once in the lottery?

[HadAnEffectHere]

I do think "pretend to compete, but then intentionally tank out of the postseason for the 9th pick" is a pretty weird strategy, lol. Tanking for a top 4 pick makes sense... The 9th pick generally is not very good...

The Jazz also kept leaking to the media that they wanted to make the play-in this year to convey their pick, but that was just obviously a lie and it's not clear why they bothered lying.

So it's a pretty frustrating situation for fans and players.

[AGE1207]

Throwing another year? You realize we hadn’t played better than .500 basketball in weeks and there was a good chance we would be in this position regardless. We weren’t good; go back a few years and we’re no where near a playoff team but the playin has people happy with the 10th spot.

At one point this season we were 7 - 16, then we were 19-10 to be 26-26. So yes, we were a 50%, but playing 66% ball in the last 29.

It's like Prometheus torture... when you heal, someone is hurting you another time.

We have gifted Royce O'Neal X Sensabaugh.
We have gifted Vando, Naw, Conley and Beasley for a top 4 protected pick.
We have gifted Bogdanovic for Olynyk, then him for Otto Porter Jr. And we let him go for free, so it's Bojan for a 2nd round pick.

And after those trades it's
Mitchell for Lauri and Sexton (ochai is gifted) and some picks
Gobert for Kessler, George and some picks


If you aren't mad, then you are a quiet man.

They say it's about evolution of George and Hendricks... but I don't think they are going to be nothing special, showing what they are showing.

What would you have done differently? Run it back with Mitchell / Gobert?

A reset was needed, we could have gone the route of just letting all those players expire and not resign them, instead we got value for them. Bogey and Royce were both just moved for 2nds.

Is your complaint about the draft? I suppose we could have picked different players but it doesn’t seem like there were many below Keyonte and Hendricks that have drastically performed better?

Honestly we sound like the entitled lakers fans we all make fun of. We have one of the best front offices in the league, one of the best coaches and were gifted one of the best players in Lauri.

I’ve missed when we somehow became the 76ers of the 2010s or the pistons of today by selecting once in the lottery?

What u also missed is a team of scrappy blue collar players on their way to possibly the play inn, thus surpassing all expectations (for the 2nd year in a row btw) and all of this whilst having fun and entertaining their fan base.
That team just got tied one hand behind its back for the remainder of the season without cause, on the contrary. At the very least, they deserved an honest chance to get to those play ins.
I don’t care what anybody says about development and returns and this being a business…I may know very little about basketball but I know a bit about business and I am saying this “business decision” will have a (strong) negative outcome…That “strong” FO risks losing one of the best coaches and best players in the league or at the very least will now have to overpay just to keep them on board.
And as far as basketball and sports in general is concerned, I don’t think rookies learn a lot from getting their ass kicked. They learn from close games where every possession counts and every decision is crucial.

[vryadli]

What would you have done differently? Run it back with Mitchell / Gobert?

A reset was needed, we could have gone the route of just letting all those players expire and not resign them, instead we got value for them. Bogey and Royce were both just moved for 2nds.

Is your complaint about the draft? I suppose we could have picked different players but it doesn’t seem like there were many below Keyonte and Hendricks that have drastically performed better?

Post which you answerd didn't mention Mitchell / Gobert. And as one is not equal three, so three resets is not the same as three resets. And now, we don't have one of the best office in the league now. Not in ethics, not in locker room air, not in team spirit on court. And not in results of course. The only metrics where Jazz is ahead now is a number of mediocre picks and cap space which no one sane elite player will want to fill.

[bkohler]

One of the jobs of a GM is to have the longest view in the room. I think Danny and Justin have done precisely that and not overreacted as much of the fanbase has.

One glance below our record's surface will show that we weren't a playoff (or play-in) team, even with Olynyk, Ochai, and Simone. Of our wins, only 12 came against teams with a winning record. Of those 12, only six were against teams that weren't missing their star player. Of those six, only one was on the road. The simple truth is we beat up on the Blazers, Nets, Pistons, Raptors, Hornets, Wizards, and Spurs in December, and Jan caught a Philly team with no Embiid, a Bucks team with no Dame, and a Pacers team with no Haliburton and celebrated like we were a good team.

Before(!), the trades that Jazz was projected to finish with a record of 38-44. We faced the 6th hardest remaining schedule (the 2nd before we played OKC and MIL). ESPN's BPI predicted that we would finish with the 12th pick with 39 wins before the trade and finish just outside the play-in tournament. Other projections had us at a 61% chance of missing the play-in altogether (again, pre-trades).

We were a .500 team with a coin-flip chance at making the play-in. We 'punted' on that chance by trading away two players we might not be able to resign and a nearly 24-year-old prospect who had been digressing in exchange for a FRP and an excellent SRP. Coupled together, you should be able to use that to bring in someone who fits better long-term or add more potential youth via the draft.

Do I think that there's frustration right now with Lauri? Sure. But I also think there would be frustration if we allowed ourselves to become the Bulls. They are stuck in the .500 range but are not willing to make hard decisions to get themselves out of it.

Do I think maybe we should have tanked harder? Last year - definitely, and honestly I think they tried, Lauri and Mike were just too good.

Do I believe that we should have tanked harder this year? No. I think letting us attempt to be as good as we can be while still getting value for whatever we could move that would bring back value and aren't part of our long-term plans seems to be the right answer with a draft that lacks top-end talent.

I know we've got some frustrated players right now, but to jump to the conclusion that Will Hardy is frustrated and not privy to the plans of Justin/Danny seems a bit far-fetched to me.

I also find it interesting how quickly both the fanbase and it seems the team has potentially given up when I think Hardy is a wizard (there's a Harry Potter meme in there somewhere) and can still fight for a play-in spot. I also believe one of the under-appreciated parts of this is what does Lauri do? A franchise guy will put the team on his back and get wins. Putting Lauri into this situation is stretching him, especially considering that we need to know what we've got there before we give him a Supermax in the offseason.

Now all of that said I think there are something that I don't agree with when it comes to the current FO / Will Hardy's decisions.

1.) Playing Keyonte over Dunn is an awful decision. Keynote has had a lot of minutes to develop. Forcing him into the starting lineup seems to hurt other players and his own development.
2.) The John Collins experiment in Utah has been a minor disaster. I get why we took the chance on him, but he's taking minutes from Kessler / Hendricks and putting up what seems like hollow stats from my perspective (and from the +/- perspective). He feels like he needs to be the 7-8th man on a team.
3.) Our current obsession with small guards is killing me. You need one JC on our team... we've got three (KG,JC,CS)

[vryadli]

Problem is that is not a tanking for future. It is abort of developing year for nothing, especially not for long time perspective.. Young players are now devoid of significant competiton, good veteran examples and for compensation got all kind of wrong messages.

It is huge hit on longest time perspectives because wiinnig culture is a long thing to build. I think Bulls will be dream scenario for next 10-15 years.

As for GS, sorry, it is big market. Nice, but impossible to imitate.