Game 57: Utah Jazz (26-30) vs Charlotte Hornets (13-41)

[Inigo Montoya]

If we can't win this one we might as well shut it down.

[D Rog]

If we can't win this one we might as well shut it down.

The Jazz already kinda "shut it down". (I predict Markkanen is going to have a strained whatever within the next month)

I haven't watched a game (Jazz or anybody else) since the trade deadline. Looking forward to summer to see what Danny does. NFL starts up again in 6+ months.

[Inigo Montoya]

If we can't win this one we might as well shut it down.

The Jazz already kinda "shut it down". (I predict Markkanen is going to have a strained whatever within the next month)

I haven't watched a game (Jazz or anybody else) since the trade deadline. Looking forward to summer to see what Danny does. NFL starts up again in 6+ months.

So many Jazz fans complained about how the Jazz picked Hendricks at #9 and aren't playing him and now that they do you're not even going to watch? To each his own. I can enjoy games even when the Jazz aren't winning.

[vryadli]

So many Jazz fans complained about how the Jazz picked Hendricks at #9 and aren't playing him and now that they do you're not even going to watch? To each his own. I can enjoy games even when the Jazz aren't winning.

So many - how many is it? I can easily count more who wanted to see a TEAM, but may be I am miscounting.

It is nice for you to switch from "only ring matters" and not enjoying winning in regular season and too short PO - to enjoying all neat nice small things which are unrelated to winning of anything at all. LM, according all articles I read, is not so resilient and didn't enjoy that development like at all. At least 3 NBA writers even said that rotation players feels that FO lied to them.

[Inigo Montoya]

So many Jazz fans complained about how the Jazz picked Hendricks at #9 and aren't playing him and now that they do you're not even going to watch? To each his own. I can enjoy games even when the Jazz aren't winning.

So many - how many is it? I can easily count more who wanted to see a TEAM, but may be I am miscounting.

It is nice for you to switch from "only ring matters" and not enjoying winning in regular season and too short PO - to enjoying all neat nice small things which are unrelated to winning of anything at all. LM, according all articles I read, is not so resilient and didn't enjoy that development like at all. At least 3 NBA writers even said that rotation players feels that FO lied to them.

1. My stance was never that only rings matter. My stance was and still is that I want a team with a legit chance of winning a ring. Even if it falls short, as long as winning a championship is a real possibility, I'm fine with that. I don't think we had such a team since the Deron Williams era. I don't think the Michell-Gobert teams were ever good enough.

2. I always said I can enjoy watching a team in a rebuild. I like to see the progress of players and the system being put in place and the roster taking shape, I enjoy trades (for the most part) and I like the draft and it's much more exciting when you're picking in the lottery than when you're picking in the mid 20s.

3. Where I do have a problem is when it's clear that the team you have isn't good enough and you still roll with it year after year, especially when there is no room for improvement big enough to make it a contender. When I know that my team is going to win 50-ish games and get bounced in the first round or maybe the second if it gets lucky, and that it can't get significantly better, that's where I lose interest. At that point, the whole season and playoffs are an exercise in futility as far as I'm concerned.

4. Larry H. Miller was indeed not very patient with losing and to to each his own. He was, however, perfectly fine with rolling out the same team I described, the one that wins 50 games, makes the playoffs and goes home. It was said for many years that the Jazz would only be profitable in years where they make the playoffs so maybe that's why, but for a long while under the Miller family it felt like they where fine just making the playoffs and nothing more.

5. If you can provide links to the article of the writers who said players feels like the front office lied to them, it would be appreciated. I can see why they'd feel this way and I didn't like the trades either for a similar reason.

[FJS]

Hornets are still worse than us... so I expect a win... but I wouldn't be surprised by a lose either.

[Crunch 99]

Jazz have everyone available except Otto Porter. LaMelo Ball is out for Charlotte.

Rotowire lists Porter as not injured, but away from the team. J Notes wrote this yesterday:

Otto Porter may already be done with the Utah Jazz. The Utah Jazz may already be done with Otto Porter Jr.
https://thejnotes.com/posts/otto-porter-may-already-be-done-with-the-utah-jazz-01hq72k2y5g3

Snip: The one guy we thought might get minutes was Porter. After all, Porter is good on defense and the Jazz desperately need help on that end of the court. Well, it turns out the one player who may have some value for the Jazz isn't likely to ever suit up for the squad. According to the Athletic's Tony Jones, the Jazz have allowed Porter to leave the team.

[vryadli]

t teams were ever good enough.

2. I always said I can enjoy watching a team in a rebuild. I like to see the progress of players and the system being put in place and the roster taking shape, I enjoy trades (for the most part) and I like the draft and it's much more exciting when you're picking in the lottery than when you're picking in the mid 20s.


5. If you can provide links to the article of the writers who said players feels like the front office lied to them, it would be appreciated. I can see why they'd feel this way and I didn't like the trades either for a similar reason.

Thank you for explanation. Of course it is much easier to shape roster if you first destroy it to the ground and the less developed players are, the more sure and evident is there progress. Of course team efforts and players feelings have to be sacrificed, dut is kind of OK.

I didn't collect links, but it was easy to google that for example (and I read a good few more in that line, including a couple polite, but quite definite, LM interviews)
https://thejnotes.com/posts/the-utah-jazz-may-have-screwed-up-bad-with-this-year-s-trades-01hpmjwqzkbs

The Utah Jazz may have screwed up bad with this year's trades
..........
Andy Larsen of The Salt Lake Tribune reporting that the team is down badly after the recent trade, with some believing they were misled about the intentions of the team for the year. It sounds like the players felt lied to about the intentions of the team this year and rightfully so.

[D Rog]

If we can't win this one we might as well shut it down.

The Jazz already kinda "shut it down". (I predict Markkanen is going to have a strained whatever within the next month)

I haven't watched a game (Jazz or anybody else) since the trade deadline. Looking forward to summer to see what Danny does. NFL starts up again in 6+ months.

So many Jazz fans complained about how the Jazz picked Hendricks at #9 and aren't playing him and now that they do you're not even going to watch? To each his own. I can enjoy games even when the Jazz aren't winning.

I am not going through all of my posts to see if I said anything about the Jazz playing Hendricks. I admit on some fan discussion boards I expressed comments about the Jazz looking for more picks but they couldn't even get the #9 pick of the 2024 draft on the floor. That is not me complaining about Hendricks not playing.

A long time ago I accepted the Jazz most likely will not get a title. I have said multiple times the Lakers will get 4 more titles before the Jazz get back to the WCF. I started that comment before Lebron joined the Lakers. The Lakers need 3 more titles to prove me right. I bought the Jazz BS from 1987 (when I started following the Jazz) until about 2010. Now I recognize it is just a big business and everything the Jazz say is just a sales pitch to make more money. I have heard the same BS Ainge, Zanik and Smith are selling from their predecessors. WHAT ELSE CAN THEY SAY? I truly believed LHM was hungry for a title. I haven't seen that enthusiasm from the Jazz since he passed. Maybe I am just a cynical old guy but I am what I am.

[vryadli]

The Jazz already kinda "shut it down". (I predict Markkanen is going to have a strained whatever within the next month)

I haven't watched a game (Jazz or anybody else) since the trade deadline. Looking forward to summer to see what Danny does. NFL starts up again in 6+ months.

So many Jazz fans complained about how the Jazz picked Hendricks at #9 and aren't playing him and now that they do you're not even going to watch? To each his own. I can enjoy games even when the Jazz aren't winning.

I am not going through all of my posts to see if I said anything about the Jazz playing Hendricks. I admit on some fan discussion boards I expressed comments about the Jazz looking for more picks but they couldn't even get the #9 pick of the 2024 draft on the floor. That is not me complaining about Hendricks not playing.

A long time ago I accepted the Jazz most likely will not get a title. I have said multiple times the Lakers will get 4 more titles before the Jazz get back to the WCF. I started that comment before Lebron joined the Lakers. The Lakers need 3 more titles to prove me right. I bought the Jazz BS from 1987 (when I started following the Jazz) until about 2010. Now I recognize it is just a big business and everything the Jazz say is just a sales pitch to make more money. I have heard the same BS Ainge, Zanik and Smith are selling from their predecessors. WHAT ELSE CAN THEY SAY? I truly believed LHM was hungry for a title. I haven't seen that enthusiasm from the Jazz since he passed. Maybe I am just a cynical old guy but I am what I am.

I think it (may be) is a plausible busyness decision: it is much easier to maintain the culture of permanent trading and multiple drafting than to build hard-nosed, tight-knitted overachieving team. It looks like Jazz was twice that team in the last year and half, but it was aborted for the benefit of at least 10-15 of exciting drafting and trading.
The old-fashioned fans (like me are) not the biggest looser, actually. The biggest looser is, evidently, LM. Hardy and Kessler are young enough for fresh start in some another, more conservative franchise.

[red4hf]

We have a Sensabaugh sighting!!!

[babyjax13]

Rookies are fun to watch right now,playing loose.

[bkohler]

Rookies are fun to watch right now,playing loose.

I found myself hoping Hendricks would come back in, and not just because I want to see him playing more... honestly, I didn't think that would happen for quite a while, but tonight, the rookies have been noticeably giving more effort.

[red4hf]

So, we're really going to lose to the Hornets at home? Without Ball? With Hardy playing Clarkson over Hendricks?

[red4hf]

It's time to have a conversation about Hardy......

[babyjax13]

It's time to have a conversation about Hardy......

It's really not. We were over .500 with a team that shouldn't be, and he is balancing throwing young players into the deep end and keeping them in competitive games.

[JazzUte88]

It's time to have a conversation about Hardy......

I don’t understand what Will Hardy is doing sometimes but it’s not like he’s given a good roster. Kris Dunn shouldn’t be coming off the bench.

Hopefully Utah has a new lineup next year and maybe they can use someone like a FA Markelle Fultz and the young players as tank commanders.

[FJS]

Poor THT.
Frankly, maybe it's better in the long run, but now hurt to watch them.

[red4hf]

It's time to have a conversation about Hardy......

It's really not. We were over .500 with a team that shouldn't be, and he is balancing throwing young players into the deep end and keeping them in competitive games.

I remember people saying that last year...... Let's see if that's what people will be saying next year too......

[Inigo Montoya]

The Jazz already kinda "shut it down". (I predict Markkanen is going to have a strained whatever within the next month)

I haven't watched a game (Jazz or anybody else) since the trade deadline. Looking forward to summer to see what Danny does. NFL starts up again in 6+ months.

So many Jazz fans complained about how the Jazz picked Hendricks at #9 and aren't playing him and now that they do you're not even going to watch? To each his own. I can enjoy games even when the Jazz aren't winning.

I am not going through all of my posts to see if I said anything about the Jazz playing Hendricks. I admit on some fan discussion boards I expressed comments about the Jazz looking for more picks but they couldn't even get the #9 pick of the 2024 draft on the floor. That is not me complaining about Hendricks not playing.

A long time ago I accepted the Jazz most likely will not get a title. I have said multiple times the Lakers will get 4 more titles before the Jazz get back to the WCF. I started that comment before Lebron joined the Lakers. The Lakers need 3 more titles to prove me right. I bought the Jazz BS from 1987 (when I started following the Jazz) until about 2010. Now I recognize it is just a big business and everything the Jazz say is just a sales pitch to make more money. I have heard the same BS Ainge, Zanik and Smith are selling from their predecessors. WHAT ELSE CAN THEY SAY? I truly believed LHM was hungry for a title. I haven't seen that enthusiasm from the Jazz since he passed. Maybe I am just a cynical old guy but I am what I am.

I don't think you're cynical, and I agree with what you're saying. I've felt like this for a very long time, pretty much.

But I will say that I don't think that you hire a guy like Ainge just to continue to wallow in mediocrity as a conscious decision. If Smith wanted to continue with the same track, he could have just kept Dennis Lindsey. But at some point we also need to look at Jazz fans as part of the problem. My impression is that Jazz fans have a very low, and perhaps the lowest, tolerance for losing. They cannot accept bad teams, which kind of perpetuates the problem we've experienced of building a 45-50 win team, make the first round of the playoffs, maybe win it once in a while, and that's it. This seems to be good enough for too many people, which gives the ownership the support to keep doing it.

I give credit to Smith and Ainge for being willing to blow up the Mitchell-Gobert team when they could have ridden that core for years and get the same results. And they did it in a season when the Allstar game was in SLC, no less. This gives me the impression that they are trying to do better than what we're used to. But that means we're in a rebuild and right away people start complaining that the team isn't good. Well, yeah, that's part of a rebuild. But Jazz fans seem to show very little patience for this. Which is maybe why they're not going all in on tanking and half-assing it. If there was a support from fans for proper tanking, if people were willing to watch games even when the Jazz aren't that good, that gives the FO a lot more leeway to properly tank.