Phelps or Bolt

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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#401 » by TheGlyde » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:41 am

deNIEd wrote:I've ran track extremely competitively for about 6-8 years, and I can tell you, along with pretty much any other track athlete that the 400 is the hardest event out there.

Anyone can run the 100, its not that long. It's all about acceleration and top speed. It's more about physical limitations, how fast am I, how long does it take me to get that fast.

vs the 400

Which is all about strength, stamina and speed. In the 400, you're sprinting the entire way, there is no pacing and no easy stretch. The entire race is simply hell.

200/400 is without question harder to do than the 100/200.


Agreed and agreed.

I'm of the belief 100m runners have to be born, 400m runners can be built.

To run the 100m at a top level you have to lucky enough to be born with the body to do it.

For the 400m, genes obviously still play a part, but its alot more conquering the pain barrier, about how hard you can push yourself, both in training and in racing.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#402 » by canoner » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:29 am

The fact that Bolt has potential to improve the 100m significantly, and the fact he broke MJ's record which was considered safe for next few decades put any doubt to rest. Phelps has won a lot of golds, partially thank to a super strong team USA. Without the team support, his individual gold medal count is still good but less than unthinkable. None of Phelps' individual gold is as impressive as either of Bolt's. Quantity doesn't not trump quality. I'd say Bolt is the most brilliant athlete of this game, or in the past 20 years.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#403 » by Joker » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:39 am

I wonder what Phelps would've said if you told him two weeks ago that he'd win 8 golds and be overshadowed by someone else haha.

He's probably determined to win 10 the next Olympics now.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#404 » by canoner » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:47 am

Joker wrote:I wonder what Phelps would've said if you told him two weeks ago that he'd win 8 golds and be overshadowed by someone else haha.

He's probably determined to win 10 the next Olympics now.


I don't know. What other event he's got a lock on gold? He cannot win any of the 50m, he is not good enough to win 100m freestyle. 200m freestyle is winnable because it gives him 3 turns which he makes a living on. After all his strength is Butterfly and he's won it all.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#405 » by RockTHECasbah » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:50 am

400 free?
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#406 » by YiOF » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:50 am

RockTHECasbah wrote:400 free?


Takes too much energy to swim the 400 free.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#407 » by shawngoat23 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:15 am

The 100/200 double is pretty hard to accomplish, but the 200/400 is that much harder. Being able to capture the 100/200/400 triple at the Olympic level would simply be amazing.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#408 » by The Duke » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:02 pm

Phelphs will not gonna swim the 400m Free... and there are some talks that he might not even race the 400m IM again in the Olympics, cuz he needs to cut his program when he is older in 4 years. Again thats speculation on his part, cuz u dont know how u will feel in London 2012. But the timing of that event (1st swimming event of the games) is positioned so he can do it even when older, and not have it in the middle of the overall swim meet, where it is hugely physically draining.

He is not strong enough in breaststoke to compete in the 100m or 200m races, plus Japan's Kitajama (sp?) is dominating those races for the last 2 olympics... He concentrated on this stroke leading up to the olympics to ensure he took the 400 IM Gold, because Lochte almost beat him recently in that race.

For the Fly... his best stroke, he is already maxed out at the 100m and 200m... and there is no other distance... and you know that Serbian is gonna be fired up to take that away from him in London in the 100m distance.

For the backstroke... here is where I think he CAN add to his medal count. It will take some more contentrated training but I think he can compete in the 200m backstroke (prolly not the 100m backstroke tho) as he a very accomplished backstroker at present (and its a less taxing race physically)

The Freestyle .. is the king stroke and that will never change, no matter how much medals Phelphs can will in the other events. Theres a reason why the 100m Free is the most historical race in swimming... theres a reason why the 4x100m Freestyle Relay is MUCH bigger then the 4x100m Medlay Relay.

I will speculate that Phelphs might (just might), start training more sprint wise, and look to compete in this 100m Free in London.

Given all that... Phelphs is currently one of the best Olympians, but u need to compare him to the others in his era. Honestly tho, Bolt's performance is more shocking/impressive even tho his medal count will be lower. Possibily 3 gold medals in the 100/200/4x100 ... possibily all WR if they have solid exchanged in the relay... is better in my opinion for this olympics. But for Bolt to be called the better overall Olympian, he will have to domainate in London as well... i'm still hopeing he competes in the 4x400m relay finals in this olympics on the last day (he doesnt need to run the semi-finals which are the same day as the 4x100m finals the day before)
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#409 » by 5DOM » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:02 pm

i dont think Bolt will break the WR in 4x100m relay. it seems like it was raining the whole day in beijing, and the track is wet.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#410 » by JN » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:44 pm

5DOM wrote:i dont think Bolt will break the WR in 4x100m relay. it seems like it was raining the whole day in beijing, and the track is wet.


The finals are not for a few days
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#411 » by The Duke » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:45 pm

Finals are tomarrow... 10:15 am EST
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#412 » by 5DOM » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:47 pm

JN wrote:
5DOM wrote:i dont think Bolt will break the WR in 4x100m relay. it seems like it was raining the whole day in beijing, and the track is wet.


The finals are not for a few days


it's only a day from now. If it keeps raining and the tracks is wet, how hard would it be to break the WR in such condition? plus the WR hasnt changed in 15+ years. (i dont know what the expectation for Jamaica was, but w.e)

i expect Jamaica to win (with US gone), but maybe not the WR.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#413 » by JN » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:54 pm

The Duke wrote:Finals are tomarrow... 10:15 am EST


OK - thanks for the clarification
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#414 » by eyeatoma » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:23 pm

Maybe I'm missing something, but the team that Jamaica came out with for Heat 2 of the 4x100 did not have Bolt on it.

Has he decided not to race?
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#415 » by dacher » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:32 pm

He's just being rested. Same happens all the time in swimming relay qualifying heats.

No reason to risk injury or add to fatigue when they don't have to.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#416 » by eyeatoma » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:42 pm

Ah I see, thanks...
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#417 » by dougthonus » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:09 pm

Without the team support, his individual gold medal count is still good but less than unthinkable.


Without team support he set the record for most individual golds by any athlete in the history of the Olympics (both single Olympics and career mark). Just saying.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#418 » by dougthonus » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:16 pm

The Duke wrote:Phelphs will not gonna swim the 400m Free... and there are some talks that he might not even race the 400m IM again in the Olympics, cuz he needs to cut his program when he is older in 4 years. Again thats speculation on his part, cuz u dont know how u will feel in London 2012. But the timing of that event (1st swimming event of the games) is positioned so he can do it even when older, and not have it in the middle of the overall swim meet, where it is hugely physically draining.

He is not strong enough in breaststoke to compete in the 100m or 200m races, plus Japan's Kitajama (sp?) is dominating those races for the last 2 olympics... He concentrated on this stroke leading up to the olympics to ensure he took the 400 IM Gold, because Lochte almost beat him recently in that race.

For the Fly... his best stroke, he is already maxed out at the 100m and 200m... and there is no other distance... and you know that Serbian is gonna be fired up to take that away from him in London in the 100m distance.

For the backstroke... here is where I think he CAN add to his medal count. It will take some more contentrated training but I think he can compete in the 200m backstroke (prolly not the 100m backstroke tho) as he a very accomplished backstroker at present (and its a less taxing race physically)

The Freestyle .. is the king stroke and that will never change, no matter how much medals Phelphs can will in the other events. Theres a reason why the 100m Free is the most historical race in swimming... theres a reason why the 4x100m Freestyle Relay is MUCH bigger then the 4x100m Medlay Relay.

I will speculate that Phelphs might (just might), start training more sprint wise, and look to compete in this 100m Free in London.

Given all that... Phelphs is currently one of the best Olympians, but u need to compare him to the others in his era. Honestly tho, Bolt's performance is more shocking/impressive even tho his medal count will be lower. Possibily 3 gold medals in the 100/200/4x100 ... possibily all WR if they have solid exchanged in the relay... is better in my opinion for this olympics. But for Bolt to be called the better overall Olympian, he will have to domainate in London as well... i'm still hopeing he competes in the 4x400m relay finals in this olympics on the last day (he doesnt need to run the semi-finals which are the same day as the 4x100m finals the day before)



I really doubt he's going to add events in 2012, at that point if he could do 8 events and medal in them (regardless of whether he got gold, bronze, or silver) it would be mind blowing to get 8 medals in 3 straight Olympics. Even doing it twice is mind blowing.

If he had set out to get 9 golds in this Olympics I wonder how he could have done. I don't think it's inconceivable that he could have done the 200m backstroke and had a shot at gold in it without screwing up his other races, though he so narrowly won the 100m butterfly that I suppose even doing just 1 more event could have taken him from gold to silver in that event.

If he had done 8 gold and 1 silver instead of 8 gold and no silver would it seem more impressive or less impressive? In some ways it'd seem less which is kind of odd.

Anyway, I will be very interested to see what Phelps does in 2012. A dominant performance there would ice the cake when discussing him as one of the top 2-3 Olympians of all time. A so-so performance would leave some people making a case for him while others point to the amount of medal opportunities each year in swimming.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#419 » by Joker » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:51 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Without the team support, his individual gold medal count is still good but less than unthinkable.


Without team support he set the record for most individual golds by any athlete in the history of the Olympics (both single Olympics and career mark). Just saying.


If Olympic gold medal count (single Olympics or career) dictates which athlete is the most impressive, then Usain Bolt wouldn't make the top 50 list, much less be considered more impressive than Michael Phelps. Just saying.

We should be mindful of the fact that the question posed by the OP was which athlete was more impressive, not which athlete was more decorated or accomplished, because in the latter case, it could be fairly objectively determined that it is Michael Phelps. While there is certainly a correlation between impressiveness and one's accolades and accomplishments, they are not one in the same.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a more decorated and accomplished athlete than the likes of Hakeem or Shaq -- undeniably so -- yet I think a majority would say that Hakeem/Shaq were more impressive than Kareem.
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Re: Phelps or Bolt 

Post#420 » by Worm Guts » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:03 pm

Joker wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Without the team support, his individual gold medal count is still good but less than unthinkable.


Without team support he set the record for most individual golds by any athlete in the history of the Olympics (both single Olympics and career mark). Just saying.


If Olympic gold medal count (single Olympics or career) dictates which athlete is the most impressive, then Usain Bolt wouldn't make the top 50 list, much less be considered more impressive than Michael Phelps. Just saying.


That doesn't make it insignificant. Medal count is something that has to be considered, just not by itself.

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