Questions on Stromile Swift

carmelbrownqueen · Post #1 » by **carmelbrownqueen** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:42 pm

Hello Grizz fans-

I was reading about Stromile's struggles with your team and was wondering what you guys think about him this season? I noticed he isn't getting very many minutes and seems to be in your Coach's doghouse.. is he a malcontent or is he playing like garbage or something?

GrizzledGrizzFan · Post #2 » by **GrizzledGrizzFan** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:59 pm

You're not likely to get a "fair and balanced" answer here. Most Grizz fans haven't been happy with Stro and his lack of cashing in on his "Strotential" over the years. Likewise, there are some big time Stro fans that post here as well.

Honestly I don't think he's gotten a fair shake with the new regime in Memphis. Granted, he's played like crap at times too. I do think a change of scenery would be a good deal for him.

Utah, however, would not. I think Sloan would eat him alive and spit him out.

carmelbrownqueen · Post #3 » by **carmelbrownqueen** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:12 pm

Oh sorry to mislead.. I just like that quote from Sloan, but I am not a Utah fan. I'm a Bucks fan, and was just wondering about Swift due to our need for a different big body behind Yi Jianlian.

I know a few years ago our GM made a pretty lucurative offer to him (Stro) but we couldn't work out a sign and trade deal with the Grizz that worked for everyone.

Reading Hollinger's scouting report on him makes it appear like he is a horrific defender, a dumb player, and was mostly played out of position at the C which also contributed to his lack of production. Hollinger made it seem like the faster pace you guys were going to play this season would be a good switch for him.. but that hasn't appeared to have materialized. So I was just looking for some info on him and what he can and can't bring to a team. (Not saying I would want him, but considering our prior interest.. I wouldn't be surprised if acquiring him would be re-investigated).

We have Charlie Villanueva that hasn't worked out well for us.. and honestly I think we just need a fresh face to back up Yi Jianlian.

GrizzledGrizzFan · Post #4 » by **GrizzledGrizzFan** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:35 pm

Ah, sorry to have assumed. The Bucks may be a good fit for him there, especially with little to know expectations. In go around one with Memphis he was the 2nd overall pick from his draft class. In Houston he was slated to be a force along side Yao. In a situation where he's being brought in as a low keyed back up, he might thrive. Stranger things have happened.

carmelbrownqueen · Post #5 » by **carmelbrownqueen** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:43 pm

Perhaps.. When Yi is struggling (like right now) we might need more minutes out of him.. However my concern is with the reports about his defense. We actually need a defender at the backup PF spot, and well also the low bball IQ thing also worries me.

Double Dribble · Post #6 » by **Double Dribble** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:47 pm

carmelbrownqueen wrote:Hello Grizz fans-

I was reading about Stromile's struggles with your team and was wondering what you guys think about him this season? I noticed he isn't getting very many minutes and seems to be in your Coach's doghouse.. is he a malcontent or is he playing like garbage or something?

this season? how about in general: a bag of dog **** has more value and bball talent.

rag-time4 · Post #7 » by **rag-time4** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:21 pm

GrizzledGrizzFan wrote:You're not likely to get a "fair and balanced" answer here. Most Grizz fans haven't been happy with Stro and his lack of cashing in on his "Strotential" over the years. Likewise, there are some big time Stro fans that post here as well.

Honestly I don't think he's gotten a fair shake with the new regime in Memphis. Granted, he's played like crap at times too. I do think a change of scenery would be a good deal for him.

Utah, however, would not. I think Sloan would eat him alive and spit him out.

Grizzled, wouldn't presenting both perspetives on Stromile make the answer fair and balanced? Isn't that what dscussion is supposed to be all about... allowing different people with different points of view a chance to express themselves, and by looking at various perspectives, well-informed and well thought out conclusions can be arrived at....

Stromile is better than both Yi and Bogut, and would be a better starter than either of them. Acquiring Stromile Swift solely with the intent of using Stromile as a backup to Yi wouldn't work because I don't believe that Stromile sees himself as a lesser player than Yi or anyone else on the Bucks frontcourt, and rightly so.

Hollinger's use of the term "dumb player" in Stromile's case, in my opinion, marks the analyst as a bigot and someone with a narrow-minded approach to basketball. Stromile's style of play and cultural expression are unmistakeably and undeniably "black" ... he is sometimes labeled as "flashy" and "a great leaper" with a "low bball iq" ... traits which often go together and which are associated with black players and are related to long standing racist stereotypes.

Stromile has a marked impact on points in the paint.... any Griz fan who has looked at points in the paint regularly can tell you that the Grizzlies are far better on points in the paint when Stromile is in the rotation than they are when he is not in the rotation.

I'll give you a couple examples, so you can see for yourself:

Points in the paint

Without Stromile

1/30/08 Nuggets 60 - Grizzlies 40 (Swift 0 minutes)
1/28/08 Mavericks 52 - Griz 36 (Swift 1:45 mins)
1/26/08 Clippers 46 - Griz 46 (Swift 0 mins, Kaman + Brand 0 mins)
1/25/08 Wizards 48 - Griz 40 (Swift 0 minutes)
1/19/08 Bobcats 52 - Griz 44 (Swift 0 shots in 7:45 mins)

With Stromile

1/23/08 Magic 32 - Griz 42 (Swift 15:36 mins)
1/21/08 Bulls 34 - Griz 40 (Swift 3 dunks 1 block in 8:10 mins)
11/21/07 Raptors 16 - Griz 44 (Swift 26:28 mins and a start vs Bosh)
11/19/07 Sonics 48 - Griz 66 (Swift 24:8 mins and a start)

Double Dribble · Post #8 » by **Double Dribble** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:28 pm

rag-time4 wrote:Grizzled, wouldn't presenting both perspetives on Stromile make the answer fair and balanced? Isn't that what dscussion is supposed to be all about... allowing different people with different points of view a chance to express themselves, and by looking at various perspectives, well-informed and well thought out conclusions can be arrived at....

uhhhh, no. following that "reasoning", do we need "both perspectives" of Hitler or the holocaust to reach a "well-informed and well thought out" conclusion? hell no. do we need "both perspectives" of the KKK's beliefs and actions? how about a rapist or murderer?

rag-time4 · Post #9 » by **rag-time4** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:44 pm

Double Dribble wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

uhhhh, no. following that "reasoning", do we need "both perspectives" of Hitler or the holocaust to reach a "well-informed and well thought out" conclusion? hell no. do we need "both perspectives" of the KKK's beliefs and actions? how about a rapist or murderer?

Many blacks in the south have been strung from trees for being rapists and murderers, but did they have fair and balanced trials?

Uhhhh no.

Double Dribble · Post #10 » by **Double Dribble** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 12:10 am

but according to your reasoning, we need to hear the side that was in favor of those lynchings in order to reach well-informed and well thought out conclusions. "isn't that what discussion is supposed to be all about... allowing different people with different points of view a chance to express themselves?" wouldn't presenting both perspectives be fair and balanced? see how stupid that "reasoning" is?

rag-time4 · Post #11 » by **rag-time4** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 1:17 am

Double Dribble wrote:but according to your reasoning, we need to hear the side that was in favor of those lynchings in order to reach well-informed and well thought out conclusions. "isn't that what discussion is supposed to be all about... allowing different people with different points of view a chance to express themselves?" wouldn't presenting both perspectives be fair and balanced? see how stupid that "reasoning" is?

Well if you didn't hear the side that was in favor of the lynching how could you come to a well informed conclusion about what were the causes behind it?

Shifting the topic back to Stromile, I believe it's certainly a good idea to hear the sides of both those who like him and those who don't. If I were coming in with no knowledge of the subject, I would like to hear both sides and see what evidence is being presented.

In my above post, I made a statement that Stromile has a marked impact on points in the paint, and I provided evidence to back my statement.

So if I was coming into the conversation blind, I would want to see the evidence for myself and see if it's valid and if it's true and correct.

Same goes for your historical analogies. If I wanted to know the true history of the holocaust, I wouldn't listen to only the perspective of Zionist Jews, I would want to take a more balanced approach and hear evidence and arguments from both sides before I come to a conclusion about what actually happened.

What I got from your previous post was more that you were making a moral argument, in which the Holocaust is immoral no matter the points of view of the perpetrators, in which case I agree with you.

However, if I was entering into an open discussion about the holocaust, I would do so with the intention of hearing both sides of the discussion, whatever the argument, and regardless of my preconceptions going into the discussion. Of course I probably wouldn't take the time to enter into a discussion about whether or not the Holocaust was immoral and wrong or not, because I've already made up my mind.

The poster in this thread asked an open ended question about Stromile Swift: "What do you guys think?"

If I was asking such an open ended question, I would hope to hear a variety of different answers so that I could come to a well informed conclusion. While no single response may be "fair and balanced" on its own, by looking at different views I would be more able to hear a "fair and balanced" response altogether from those who think highly of Stromile and those who don't than I would be if I relied on only one side of the discussion for a response.

GrizzledGrizzFan · Post #12 » by **GrizzledGrizzFan** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 2:15 am

"Grizzled, wouldn't presenting both perspetives on Stromile make the answer fair and balanced? Isn't that what dscussion is supposed to be all about... allowing different people with different points of view a chance to express themselves, and by looking at various perspectives, well-informed and well thought out conclusions can be arrived at.... "

I'm sorry you didn't understand what I was getting at Lioncub. My point was that if you ask the posters of this board what their opinion of Stro was, you'll get one extreme or the other. But in your typical fashion you attack and go over the top, berating and belittling while you're at it. This post is an example of why I sometimes hate that you're a part of this community.

I fully believe that we should all have our opinions, however varied. But when you have to stoop to continually attacking your fellow posters to get a feeble point across...

Post #13 » by **SD2042** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 6:46 am

This thread will be locked since it's heading in another direction than intended.