Trade Tourney - Champion: VintaGe36

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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#101 » by dockingsched » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:03 pm

1. Kosta vs. 8. MJallday59

udonis haslem has proven that he can't play center as much as the heat need him to. he needs to play pf. get the heat some help at center.


Kosta: first impression is that there isn't any noticeable value rip off. There is a 1st rnd pick involved, but with it being 3 yrs away and lottery protected, its not too valuable. My one big concern is mcdyess as a center, he simply has never been one, at least not since he's been on detroit. It might not be a concern if he was young and there was time to mold him into one, but he's 34 yrs old with a history of injury concerns.

Mjallday59: a simple two team deal. Grizzlies get a pf to go alongside marc gasol, heat get a center than can defend the block against big men. The inclusion of a pg for sg prospect exchange makes sense for both teams too. Not really too much to complain about

Vote goes to Mjallday59

deciding factor: darko addresses center concerns, mcdyess does not.

4. randomhero423 vs. 12. SimonFish

Marcus Camby is not playing effectively at pf next to kaman. he needs to play center. get the clippers a new pf.


Simonfish: a simple two team trade. A concern i have is marion's expiring deal that the clips will be forced to deal with, and can possibly be left eating banks' deal without marion's services. The good thing about camby's deal is that they have two years to wait on a contract extension, and when that time comes they have major cap room. This trade does however meet the needs quite nicely.

Randomhero423: you have the clippers absorving randolph's deal and getting lee who is due a nice extension this upcoming summer. I'm not sure how excited the clips would be to say good bye to their excellent cap space situation for randolph/lee. The knicks get a deal they simply can't refuse. The spurs look like they get an easy no. kurt thomas is a very important player, especially in the west against gasol/bynum, amare/shaq, LA/oden, west/chandler. I just don't see the spurs moving him for a sf.

Votes goes to simonfish

deciding factor: absorbing randolph's deal, spurs trading k. thomas.

2. VintaGe36 vs. 7. ws26

the gasol/bynum combo is not working out like anticipated. some wonder whether it ever will. odom, on the other hand, plays well at pf next to both bynum and gasol. fix the lakers' problem.


Ws26: nice and simple, good. One big problem, derek fisher. He's simply not going to be traded. He's a team leader and most importantly came to LA to be close to his family during his daughter's medical treatment. Lakers aren't moving him. Bringing a player like billups is a good move, but i don't think the lakers will target a player who is two years older than kobe.

VintaGe36: more complicated than ws26's deal, but a simple amount of players involved. Addressing the lakers sf glut is a good angle, as is bringing in a quality backup pf, possibly even starting pf. I think the lakers might get too much value. The miami heat part might be the biggest stretch, with them giving up two talented players in marion/haslem, as well as taking on walton's long deal for blount's shorter one. Mavs get an arguably superior talent without the offcourt issues.

Vote goes to VintaGe36.

Deciding factor: lakers won't trade fisher, lakers get a player older than kobe.

14. sterncohen vs. 6. eitanr

al jefferson has shown he is a below avg defender at the 5, now Love is showing the same. both need to defend 4's, fix the wolves problem.


Sterncohen: first impression is that this is a bit of a stretch for the bulls. I think its been a widely accepted opinion that the bulls, a young team, has zero interested in trading for brad miller at the expense of noah. Conversely, the kings landing a player like kevin love for a 33yr old miller owed 25 mil over the next two year? Salmons doesn't have the type of value to reconcile that.

Eitanr: you decided to keep both love/jefferson and acquire a young center to play alongside both of them, neat idea. for the cavs, with illgauskas, wallace, smith, and jj on board, i think acquiring a player like miller would be impossible to pass up, even if it means absorbing cardinal's deal. For the wolves, its a move they have to make, per the scenario, so anytime you can get a young center without giving up a young asset, its good. My one concern is the inclusion of eric snow and his impending medical retirement. He was used in the previous scenario, but he was in both scenarios so it was overlooked. As of now though, snow is still listed on the roster as a player.

Votes goes to eitanr:

deciding factor: unbalanced value for bulls/kings, getting young center while keeping love/aj.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#102 » by CellarDoor » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:07 pm

That's weird..I may as well copy and paste VDCash's post.
Vote MJallady. It's not the most creative trade ever, but it is functional.
Kosta: McDyess isn't a C anymore than Haslem is.

Vote: Simonfish. Really this was the lesser of two evils. I'm not sure Marion would be a good target for the clippers.
Randomhero: The Spurs won't trade all their Cs behind Oberto to get another SF. Especially as bad as QRich. The Clippers also already turned down a Randolph trade that involved less than this.

Vote Vintage: Solid ideas all around. I like the idea of getting them some big man depth back. I'm a little concerned about Miami agreeing, but...
ws26: Trading Fisher is pretty much a DQ in my eyes. It's pretty well known that he simply isn't going to be moved.

Vote Eitanr: Not a huge splash as Varejo may very well be gone this year, but WORST case then is that they have more capspace.
Sterncohen: IMO the Kings are getting it hard here, I'm also not sure Minny can trade Love for Noah. This will eventually amount to Noah for Mayo and if Mayo becomes what people think he will, McHale wouldn't ever live it down.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#103 » by LeQuitterNotMVP » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:18 pm

2. VintaGe36 vs. 7. ws26

Ws26 – I can’t see how the pistons can turn this trade down. Now obviously I think the scenario is a bit unrealistic, so I can’t fault you (or vintage) for that. Billups and Johnson is a pretty good return for Gasol IF the lakers were to go that route. I don’t think Fisher’s going anywhere, though.

Vintage – another solid proposal. If anyone can settle howard down, it’s probably kobe. I like how the lakers get some post depth back, and I doubt the heat could turn this deal down.

Vote: vintage

14. sterncohen vs. 6. eitanr

Sterncohen – wow. Very good trade. I’m not sure if the bulls are ready to trade Noah just yet, and I don’t think Love is going anywhere (again, you didn’t make the scenario). Overall, very VERY solid trade.

Eitanr – I like it for the cavs, but I’ve seen seen this way too many times to give you my vote.

Vote: sterncohen

1. Kosta vs. 8. MJallday59

Kosta – not sure if mcdyess is a C, but either way, the magic come out way too well here. Virtually nothing for Haslem? Come on. The heat side of the deal is ok, but again, I don’t really think mcdyess is a center. Pistons, even if they have a logjam, would not trade mcdyess away like that IMO.

Mjallday – I think the heat overpay here a little, but this gets rid of the center problem, and lowry gives them another pg to play with. Solid trade; helps both sides.

Vote: mjallday

4. randomhero423 vs. 12. SimonFish

Simonfish – not bad. Fairly simple trade. Not much to say, as it accomplishes something for both team.

Randomhero – uh… I don’t think the clips would do this trade. Creative, but it didn’t sound like they were that interested in zbo over the summer. Maybe things will change, but I doubt it. I also don’t know if the spurs would be interested in q-rich.

Vote: simonfish
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#104 » by Kosta » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:20 pm

Dyess plays C very well next to Sheed for the Pistons, I'm sure he's at least about 2 inches taller at 6'10 and has a 7'4 wing span. How is he not more of a C when he's started there the last 2 playoffs for them? Haslem is a 6'8 bulky PF with short arms and is just undersized to guard C's. McDyess was guarding Dwight Howard in the 2nd round last spring!

Anyways, I probably should have given this trade idea a little more effort, I guess I underestimated the competition, Mjallday came up wtih a decent trade and a very good deal for Miami. But I highly question the Grizzlies would want to deal Lowry for Cook even with Conley. And although they do have Marc Gasol now, I'm not so sure they'd want to trade Darko for a veteran PF when they're still in rebuilding mode and several years away from even thinking playoffs. But nonetheless better than the deal I proposed, kind of half assed on my part...Good job MJ.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#105 » by Kosta » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:23 pm

Virtually nothing for Haslem? Come on.


I wouldn't say a future 1st is nothing, looking back I would have made the pick at least for '10 or even this season.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#106 » by dockingsched » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:58 am

and your 2nd round winners are.....

SECOND ROUND BRACKET

1. Kosta vs. 8. MJallday59 (dcash4, CellarDoor, LBJ4MVP23)

4. randomhero423 vs. 12. SimonFish (dcash4, CellarDoor, LBJ4MVP23)


2. VintaGe36 (dcash4, CellarDoor, LBJ4MVP23) vs. 7. ws26

14. sterncohen (LBJ4MVP23) vs. 6. eitanr (dcash4, CellarDoor)


thank you to all that participated and gave their time to create what so far has been a fast moving high quality tournament.

on to the semi-finals!!

2. VintaGe36 vs. 6. eitanr
8. MJallday59 vs. 12. SimonFish


scenarios up in a bit.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#107 » by dockingsched » Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:18 am

SEMI FINAL SCENARIOS

2. VintaGe36 vs. 6. eitanr

Scenario: It's December. Shaq is on the sidelines for the entire season. Phoenix has fallen out of the playoff hunt. Nash has made it known he will opt out at season's end if Phoenix misses the playoffs. Either get something for Steve or ensure he doesn't opt out.


8. MJallday59 vs. 12. SimonFish

Scenario: kidd's play has drastically regressed much more than anticipated, and the mavs are looking at a possible lottery/low seed type season again. dirk has made it known that he wants to legitimately compete for a ring either in dallas or somewhere else. meet dirk's demands.

rules:
1. one trade
2. post up proposals by tuesday night 10pm pacific.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#108 » by SimonFish » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:02 am

Semi scenerios are difficult.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney/2nd rnd - time to judge! 

Post#109 » by SimonFish » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:06 am

dcash4 wrote:8. MJallday59 vs. 12. SimonFish

Scenario: kidd's play has drastically regressed much more than anticipated, and the mavs are looking at a possible lottery/low seed type season again. dirk has made it known that he wants to legitimately compete for a ring either in dallas or somewhere else. meet dirk's demands.


I think I get it, a bit complicated though.

Dirk finds a new home in Texas.

Houston trade: Tracy McGrady, Steve Francis, Luther Head, Chuck Hayes, Luis Scola, Shane Battier, 2011 2nd round pick, Mem 2009 2nd round pick
Houston receive: Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Rashad McCants, Jamaal Tinsley, Jeff Foster

Dallas trade: Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, 2009 2nd round pick
Dallas receive: Tracy McGrady, Luis Scola, Shane Battier, Mem 2009 2nd round pick

Indiana trade: Jeff Foster, Jamaal Tinsley
Indiana receive: Chuck Hayes, Brian Cardinal, Hou 2011 2nd round pick

Minni trade: Rashard McCants, Brian Cardinal
Minni receive: Luther Head, Steve Francis, Dal 2009 2nd round pick

Why for Houston:

Tinsley/Alston/Brooks
JoHo/McCants/Strawberry
Artest/Barry/M.Harris
Dirk/Landry/Dorsey
Yao/Foster/Landry

A very solid starting lineup and a very solid bench. This deal brings them one of the best PFs and one of the best swingmen as well as a above average PG, a very good scoring sixth man(McCants), and a backup big man (Foster), while just giving out a decling T-Mac (espically the YM experiment had already failed, and JoHo was just 1.6ppg less than T-Mac), and some functional-type players. They can retain most of their young guys like Landry, Dorsey and Brooks, as well as star players like Yao and Artest. When Yao attracts double team, he can have a role of "passing center", and gave the ball to Dirk to throw in a 3. It would have the strongest front-court of the league, and lead them to championship.

Why for Dallas:

Kidd/Barea/McLeod
T-Mac/Terry/Wright/Green
Battier/Stackhouse/S.Williams/George
Scola/Bass/Singleton
Dampier/Diop

A T-Mac + Battier + Scola package is indeed a very good one. It has one star player with two very good functional-type player. The Mem second round pick is very close to a late first round pick. With T-Mac, Battier and Scola playing along with Kidd, Dampier, Terry, Stackhouse and Bass, the Dallas can remain as a very competitive team in the West.

Why for Indiana:

Ford/Jack/Diener
Dunleavy/Rush/Daniels
Granger/Graham/Baston
Murphy/Hayes/Cardinal
Hibbert/Nestrovic

This deal helps them to remove Tinsley, finally. This also open up minutes for their future center: Roy Hibbert. Hayes, although undersized, his athleticism would be enough for him to get a backup role in the weaker East.

Why for Minni:

Foye/Telfair/Francis
Miller/Carney/Head
Brewer/Gomes
Love/Smith/Madsen/Richard
AJ/Collins/Booth

This deal helps them to remove Cardinal, and give them more capspace to sign a big name free agent in 2009. Head would be a good replacement for McCants out of the bench.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#110 » by eitanr » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:34 pm

2. VintaGe36 vs. 6. eitanr

Scenario: It's December. Shaq is on the sidelines for the entire season. Phoenix has fallen out of the playoff hunt. Nash has made it known he will opt out at season's end if Phoenix misses the playoffs. Either get something for Steve or ensure he doesn't opt out.


If the Suns lose Shaq in December and they are out of the playoff race....it's rebuild, or at least get younger time.

The Suns would be best suited to deal Nash to a team to get a young PG replacement, maybe some help up front (Shaq's departure) and a future pick.

The following deal with Toronto would seem sensible:

Steve Nash for Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani

Why for Toronto:
Nash in his homeland in Canada! The fans and Nash would drool over this scenario. The Raps do give up some youth, but would be nice position to contend for the East. Having Nash would further the Raps as an offensive force and make the C's, Magic, Pistons, and Cavs sweat.
PF C. Bosh
SF J. Moon
C J. Oneal
SG A. Parker
PG S. Nash
Bench: Kapono, Humphries, Graham

Why for Phoenix:
Their team is dilapidated and they need a fresh start. Calderon is a nice young PG who can refresh the Suns in upcoming seasons. Bargnani is a nice big with some potential who can spread the floor even more for Shaq and Stat.
PF A. Stoudemire/ B. Diaw
SF G. Hill/ M. Barnes
C S. Oneal/ B. Lopez
SG R. Bell/ L. Barbosa
PG J. Calderon/ D. Gronic
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#111 » by CellarDoor » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:12 pm

Quick note Eitanr: your depth chart has the wrong lopez and doesn't reflect bargniani's addition. You also may want to consider the CBA and Jose Calderon's contract.
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#112 » by MJallday59 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:32 am

dcash4 wrote:SEMI FINAL SCENARIOS

8. MJallday59 vs. 12. SimonFish

Scenario: kidd's play has drastically regressed much more than anticipated, and the mavs are looking at a possible lottery/low seed type season again. dirk has made it known that he wants to legitimately compete for a ring either in dallas or somewhere else. meet dirk's demands.


The Dallas Mavericks send

Dirk Nowitzki





The Atlanta Hawks send

Al Horford
Acie Law
Marvin Williams
Speedy Claxton
2009 first round pick
2011 First round pick


Dallas:
If they're not going to compete with Dirk and Kidd this year, then it's time to blow it up. The Mavs get a new PF-C to build around in Al Horford, a prospect PG from Texas in Law, and combo forward Marvin Williams. Claxton is added to match salaries and provides them either instant cap relief due to medical retirement or cap relief before 2010. The 2009 and 2011 pick are added to somewhat offset the value

Possible Starting 5

Kidd-Terry-Howard-Horford-Diop



Atlanta:
The Hawks turn into instant contenders with this deal. It's a hard pill to swallow knowing that you sent out Horford, Williams and Law but getting Dirk would be too hard pass up. With a lineup of Bibby-Johnson-Smith-Nowitzki-Pachulia the hawks should easily claim a high seed in the east. The downside of this deal is that it leaves the hawks thin at the center position which means Dirk may have to move to the 5 spot occasionally with Smith playing the 4 spot (The fact that Dirk is more perimeter oriented would allow Smith to play the 3 a little easier).

Possible Starting 5

Bibby-Johnson-Smith-Nowitzki-Pachulia
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#113 » by VintaGe36 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:52 am

2. VintaGe36 vs. 6. eitanr

Scenario: It's December. Shaq is on the sidelines for the entire season. Phoenix has fallen out of the playoff hunt. Nash has made it known he will opt out at season's end if Phoenix misses the playoffs. Either get something for Steve or ensure he doesn't opt out.



I have opted to trade Nash, and in the process, rebuild the team.

PHX trades:
Steve Nash
Boris Diaw
Leandro Barbosa

PHX receives:
Stephon Marbury
Malik Rose
Wilson Chandler
Two future 1st round picks(top 10 protected, redeemable as soon as possible)

PHX rebuilds by using Nash to shorten Diaw's and Barbosa's deals, pick up Chandler, and two future 1st round picks, which they may not see for a while,(long after Nash is gone), which means they may likely become very good picks in a few years)

They clear up ALOT of room for the 2010 FA class. Who knows what they could target than, but they have no long term contracts besides Amare, Dragic, Chandler, Lopez and Tucker(who's TO can be declined) holding them back.

NY trades:
Stephon Marbury
Malik Rose
Wilson Chandler
Two future 1st round picks(top 15 protected through 2012, top 10 protected through 2015, and unprotected 2016, redeemable as soon as possible)

NY receives:
Steve Nash
Boris Diaw
Leandro Barbosa

NY get THREE dantoni type players, and although they do lose some picks in the process, they lose some cap flexibility and Chandler. They also deal two picks, but this time around, the picks have adequate protection to prevent them from getting fleeced in this deal.

NYK
Nash/Robinson
Crawford/Barbosa
Q Rich/Ganiliro/
Randolph/Lee
Curry/Diaw

PHX
Dragic/Marbury
Bell
Hill/Chandler
Amare/Rose
Lopez
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#114 » by LeQuitterNotMVP » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:58 pm

8. MJallday59 vs. 12. SimonFish

Simonfish – big trade, and usually that can hurt someone but in this case I think you did a good job. The rockets look unstoppable with that lineup, and I can’t see minny or the pacers having complaints with this trade. Now I’m not sure how the mavs would feel about this trade; I don’t think this is really on par with Dirk’s (and Howard’s) value. But it’s not bad overall, good job.

Mjallday – nice return for dirk from the mavs side. Horford + Williams + 2 1sts is definitely a very good haul, and if the mavs are looking to rebuild, this would be a GREAT trade for them. Now as for the hawks – they would have quite the starting 5, but the bench would be pretty weak. Johnson + dirk would be quite the combo, but they do have to take a break.

Vote: simonfish

2. VintaGe36 vs. 6. eitanr

Eitanr – nice trade idea, but as cellardoor said, it doesn’t work under the cba. Sorry.

Vintage – I don’t think either team does this deal. The knicks can’t trade away more 1st round picks for an old pg, even though d’antoni’s at the helm. The suns trade away nash for virtually nothing, and then toss in barbosa on top! You win by default because eitanr’s trade doesn’t work.

Vote: vintage
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! post trades now! 

Post#115 » by dockingsched » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:11 pm

8. MJallday59 vs. 12. SimonFish

SimonFish: your trade is pretty complicated, involving a huge number of players and teams. the meat of the trade is that the mavs pre trading dirk/howard for tmac/scola/battier. this doesn't really do much for the mavs, especially with a rapidly declining kidd. dirk is the best player in a deal involving a bunch of win now players. that team is worse than the roster the mavs had, which isn't good if they're trading for a win now situation.

MJallday59: a much simpler, more realistic trade. trading dirk for rebuilding teams makes more sense since they'll be losing kidd soon too. they get good value back. the issue I have is the hawks trading for dirk and pushing smith to sf and zaza into the starting lineup. however, trading for a true superstar to team up with joe johnson and josh smith isn't something that can easily be dismissed.

VOTE for to MJallday59

deciding factor: mavs go in a better direction, size is more realistic.


2. VintaGe36 vs. 6. eitanr

eitanr: nice and simple 2 for one deal. the value seems really good. as mentioned, trade doesn't work. calderon recently received a big raise and became a BYC player.

Trade ID #4786316

VintaGe36: the first round picks would kinda make up for the value lost in nash/barbosa if the knicks had a first round pick to give up. as it is, they're probably giving up an unprotected 1st round pick to utah in 2010, so those picks are looking at a 2012 and 2014 delivery date.

Vote goes to VintaGe36

deciding factor: violating cba rules
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! 1 more judge left 

Post#116 » by CellarDoor » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:23 pm

Obviously I concur on the Vintage v. Eitanr match-up. Which is too bad, I really liked Eitanr's idea.

Simonfish vs. MJallady: I was pretty torn here, so I am basically making my decision based off the merits of the two other judge's arguments. I'm going with Simonfish on this partially for doing a good job with a huge trade, and partly because I simply cannot reconcile all of that value for Dirk.
Vote Simonfish
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Re: Inaugural Trade Tourney - SEMI-FINALS! 1 more judge left 

Post#117 » by dockingsched » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:32 pm

Semi Final Results

8. MJallday59 (dcash4) vs. 12. SimonFish (LBJ4MVP23, CellarDoor)

2. VintaGe36 (LBJ4MVP23, dcash4, CellarDoor) vs. 6. eitanr







Championship Round:

2. VintaGe36 vs. 12. SimonFish


judges: dcash4, LBJ4MVP23, CellarDoor, eitanr, MJallday59

Rules: in this round, there will be 3 scenarios given. you will submit one trade for each scenario. whoever wins 2 of the 3 scenarios wins the tournament. POST TRADE BY SATURDAY 10 AM PACIFIC

Scenario 1: trade lamar odom

Scenario 2: trade shawn marion

Scenario 3: trade brad miller.

straight to the point. solve the 3 biggest names being circulated on the trade board.
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Re: Trade Tourney - Championship Round: VintaGe36 vs. SimonFish 

Post#118 » by CellarDoor » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:02 am

Five judges? Interesting.
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Re: Trade Tourney - Championship Round: VintaGe36 vs. SimonFish 

Post#119 » by ws26 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:07 am

No offense to Vintage and I understand why he won, but as a Knicks fans I wouldn't make that trade. Some would call it crazy, but I'm more fond of cleaning out and keeping picks, as I think the organization is looking to future flexibility and promise, not a short run and more long contracts. That would put them in perpetual mediocrity/horridness.
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Re: Trade Tourney - Championship Round: VintaGe36 vs. SimonFish 

Post#120 » by CellarDoor » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:50 am

ws26 wrote:No offense to Vintage and I understand why he won, but as a Knicks fans I wouldn't make that trade. Some would call it crazy, but I'm more fond of cleaning out and keeping picks, as I think the organization is looking to future flexibility and promise, not a short run and more long contracts. That would put them in perpetual mediocrity/horridness.


I may very well have voted for Eitanr, if it had been a legal trade.
tsherkin wrote:You can run away if you like, but I'm not done with this nonsense, I'm going rip apart everything you've said so everyone else here knows that you're completely lacking in basic basketball knowledge...

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