Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion

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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#61 » by flaco » Sat Mar 9, 2024 1:58 pm

uberhikari wrote:
flaco wrote:Absolutely love the Nash-Russell duo! I think they have god-level synergy! Russ is widely considered the best defensive Center (/player) of all time. Nash is a truly elite offensive PG (imo, top 4 all time at the very least). Both of them excel at playing at breakneck pace. They'd be unstoppable in the modern era! Curious to see how LABird builds around them.

Dr P is about to create a 2-headed monster as well. I think these 2 teams will stand out after the end of round 2.


I don't see the god-level synergy between Nash and Russell. When Russell got the ball on the fastbreak it wasn't to score but to set up his teammates. Russell never attacked the paint like LeBron or Barkley on the fastbreak. I also don't really see the synergy between Nash & Russell in the halfcourt. People speculate that Russell could've been an elite P&R partner by using his athleticism to dive to the hoop but it's just speculation. It may or may not be true; we don't know. There are a lot of athletic bigs who never became elite P&R divers.

The main potential problem I see with the Nash & Russell pairing is that neither were elite volume scorers. A lot of scoring potential is being sacrificed by going for that kind of pairing in such a limited talent pool.

The way I see it, Russ is a rich man's KG:

  • GOAT defender
  • freakish length
  • uber explosive
  • ultimate winner
  • ultimate team player
  • above average ball handler at his position
  • above average passer
  • elite rebounder
  • he even had KG's mid-range shot. KG had deeper range, but that's likely due to the era he was playing in.

Unfortunately, PnR wasn't a big thing in the 50s/60s. That said, Russ had a) the athleticism and strength to be a dynamic finisher above the rim, b) the explosiveness to blow by slow-footed bigs, c) the size to overpower guards/wings after switches. Don't see why he wouldn't be an effective roll man. Obviously, it's just my opinion though. Like you said, we can't possibly know for sure. It's up to each voter to envision the role of old school players in the modern game.

Regarding Nash, it's not his fault that the Suns were reluctant to fully embrace the 3 in the 00s. Both him and D'Antoni are on record as saying they regret not taking more 3s. Chances are he would have been shooting north of 10 threes per game in today's game, hence he would have been considered a volume scorer. Fwiw, his advanced stats would have probably gone through the roof as well. If you ask me, I'd even go as far as saying Nash is a better offensive player than Steph. Both are elite shooters and ball handlers. Difference is, Nash is also an elite facilitator. Steph is a better defender but he isn't a game changer on D, whereas Nash is definitely a game changer with his passing. Again, each voter is free to judge these things differently.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#62 » by Laimbeer » Sat Mar 9, 2024 2:22 pm

uberhikari wrote:
flaco wrote:Absolutely love the Nash-Russell duo! I think they have god-level synergy! Russ is widely considered the best defensive Center (/player) of all time. Nash is a truly elite offensive PG (imo, top 4 all time at the very least). Both of them excel at playing at breakneck pace. They'd be unstoppable in the modern era! Curious to see how LABird builds around them.

Dr P is about to create a 2-headed monster as well. I think these 2 teams will stand out after the end of round 2.


I don't see the god-level synergy between Nash and Russell. When Russell got the ball on the fastbreak it wasn't to score but to set up his teammates. Russell never attacked the paint like LeBron or Barkley on the fastbreak. I also don't really see the synergy between Nash & Russell in the halfcourt. People speculate that Russell could've been an elite P&R partner by using his athleticism to dive to the hoop but it's just speculation. It may or may not be true; we don't know. There are a lot of athletic bigs who never became elite P&R divers.

The main potential problem I see with the Nash & Russell pairing is that neither were elite volume scorers. A lot of scoring potential is being sacrificed by going for that kind of pairing in such a limited talent pool.


Russell could go coast to coast on the break. And he had great success with Cousy, a ball handler whose game was far less complete than Nash's. They are absurdly cheap, so it leaves the option of splurging on a scorer generally considered too expensive.

That said, it will be an interesting team to judge. Projecting Russell on the offensive end will draw a wide variety of opinion, but the guy was so athletic, skilled and savvy it's hard for me to imagine him not working with a genius like Nash.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#63 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Mar 9, 2024 3:40 pm

I think it's a pretty good fit, Russell is a great fast break starter
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#64 » by Snakebites » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:09 pm

Laimbeer wrote:Up


Not thrilled with my spot here.

My favorite fits among conventional guys were all taken. I like Magic/McAdoo but I really wanted Tatum, Billups, or Pierce.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Sign ups 

Post#65 » by Colbinii » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:17 pm

LA Bird wrote:In


Up
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.

penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


Circa 2018
E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.


Circa 2022
G35 wrote:Lebron is not that far off from WB in trade value.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Sign ups 

Post#66 » by durantbird » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:18 pm

Colbinii wrote:
LA Bird wrote:In


Up

Larry has Pierce
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#67 » by Snakebites » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:22 pm

I did a WILD double take when I saw Colbini had taken Pierce.
I was thinking: wait, he’s already gone, right? RIGHT?
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#68 » by Colbinii » Sat Mar 9, 2024 5:55 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:That post was a little generous to Robin


I meant Gasol Brothers :lol:
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#69 » by Snakebites » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:47 pm

We’ll see how this goes.

I foresaw that an elite passing maestro like Magic would be at a special premium in a pool without Luka, Harden, CP, Kidd, Stockton, etc.

I do think that was the right move.

I can already foresee defensive challenges ahead though.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#70 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:52 pm

I think Malone might have been the better play than Shaq, of course easy to say that when you see a star center fell
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#71 » by Snakebites » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:54 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:I think Malone might have been the better play than Shaq, of course easy to say that when you see a star center fell

You had to take Shaq.

Malone and Kobe have no particular synergy either. So I’m not sure why you’d second guess that.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#72 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:55 pm

Snakebites wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:I think Malone might have been the better play than Shaq, of course easy to say that when you see a star center fell

You had to take Shaq.

Malone and Kobe have no particular synergy either. So I’m not sure why you’d second guess that.


I like Kobe and Malone's fit a lot with his history of playing with skilled bigs who can pass.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#73 » by Snakebites » Sat Mar 9, 2024 6:58 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:I think Malone might have been the better play than Shaq, of course easy to say that when you see a star center fell

You had to take Shaq.

Malone and Kobe have no particular synergy either. So I’m not sure why you’d second guess that.


I like Kobe and Malone's fit a lot with his history of playing with skilled bigs who can pass.

There’s a lot of overlap in where they score on the floor though. Both heavy midrange guys especially if you’re using older late 90s Malone (the best Malone).

It’s at the very least not a clearly better fit enough to justify the fact that Shaq is a top 5 talent who fell all the way to round 2.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#74 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Mar 9, 2024 7:06 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:I think Malone might have been the better play than Shaq, of course easy to say that when you see a star center fell

You had to take Shaq.

Malone and Kobe have no particular synergy either. So I’m not sure why you’d second guess that.


I like Kobe and Malone's fit a lot with his history of playing with skilled bigs who can pass.

Like Shaq? :lol:
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#75 » by Snakebites » Sat Mar 9, 2024 7:08 pm

Fadeaway_J wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:
Snakebites wrote:You had to take Shaq.

Malone and Kobe have no particular synergy either. So I’m not sure why you’d second guess that.


I like Kobe and Malone's fit a lot with his history of playing with skilled bigs who can pass.

Like Shaq? :lol:

Shaq has a top 5 peak in this game IMO, top 6 at worst

Dr P got him in the mid second round and has the best duo in the game. Essentially a better version of the pair that won 3 rings in real life.

Weird to see him second guessing that.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#76 » by Colbinii » Sat Mar 9, 2024 7:51 pm

Snakebites wrote:We’ll see how this goes.

I foresaw that an elite passing maestro like Magic would be at a special premium in a pool without Luka, Harden, CP, Kidd, Stockton, etc.

I do think that was the right move.

I can already foresee defensive challenges ahead though.


Nah, teams are going to lack spacing. Look at the modern NBA, teams with 1 non-shooter tanks offensive efficiency unless the player is Giannis.

It's pretty crazy but a team without 5 shooters is going to be far worse offensively than any defense with Magic against 1 non-shooter.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#77 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Mar 9, 2024 7:54 pm

We need votes in the championship of the previous draft.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#78 » by Larry_Russell » Sat Mar 9, 2024 7:55 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:I think it's a pretty good fit, Russell is a great fast break starter



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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#79 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Mar 9, 2024 8:27 pm

Snakebites wrote:
Fadeaway_J wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:
I like Kobe and Malone's fit a lot with his history of playing with skilled bigs who can pass.

Like Shaq? :lol:

Shaq has a top 5 peak in this game IMO, top 6 at worst

Dr P got him in the mid second round and has the best duo in the game. Essentially a better version of the pair that won 3 rings in real life.

Weird to see him second guessing that.


Well Kobe/Malone/Orlando C is a pretty strong big 3 that would possibly make up for Kobe/Malone being worse than Kobe/Shaq.
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Re: Best of Enemies Draft (60s to now) - Discussion 

Post#80 » by Larry_Russell » Sat Mar 9, 2024 8:46 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:
Snakebites wrote:
Fadeaway_J wrote:Like Shaq? :lol:

Shaq has a top 5 peak in this game IMO, top 6 at worst

Dr P got him in the mid second round and has the best duo in the game. Essentially a better version of the pair that won 3 rings in real life.

Weird to see him second guessing that.


Well Kobe/Malone/Orlando C is a pretty strong big 3 that would possibly make up for Kobe/Malone being worse than Kobe/Shaq.



Jrue isnt available is he?

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