Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part IV)

[WizStorm]

Continued from...
Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

[ZonkertheBrainless]

I bet those grapes were sour anyway...

[miller31time]

An surprising statistic I noticed regarding Richard Jefferson...

In his 8 seasons of NBA basketball, he has never cracked a PER of 19 (his highest was 18.9 in 2005-2006).

In the last 3 seasons, here are his respective PERs....

06-07: 13.8
07-08: 17.4
08-09: 15.4

Then I took a look as his on/off differential over his career. Not too impressive, either.

Considering he plays average defense, I have to question his overall value to whatever team he's on. He might be a good example of a guy who can fill up the box-score but doesn't really contribute all that much.

[closg00]

PACERS -- Tyler Hansbrough will probably have a long NBA career. He will collect NBA paychecks well into his 30s and retire a wealthy man. His work ethic is unquestioned, and Pacers coach Jim O'Brien loves players with a strong motor. But Hansbrough doesn't have the size or explosiveness to thrive at power forward. He seems like a fourth big man in a rotation playing a limited role. That's not what you are looking for at No. 13, not when potential high-upside players like Earl Clark and Holiday are still on the board

.

WTF were the Pacers thinking?

[Benjammin]

PACERS -- Tyler Hansbrough will probably have a long NBA career. He will collect NBA paychecks well into his 30s and retire a wealthy man. His work ethic is unquestioned, and Pacers coach Jim O'Brien loves players with a strong motor. But Hansbrough doesn't have the size or explosiveness to thrive at power forward. He seems like a fourth big man in a rotation playing a limited role. That's not what you are looking for at No. 13, not when potential high-upside players like Earl Clark and Holiday are still on the board

.

WTF were the Pacers thinking?

It's pretty simple, really. He was the BWPA (best white player available). The Jazz are known to employ that draft and trade strategy as well.

[Wizardspride]

PACERS -- Tyler Hansbrough will probably have a long NBA career. He will collect NBA paychecks well into his 30s and retire a wealthy man. His work ethic is unquestioned, and Pacers coach Jim O'Brien loves players with a strong motor. But Hansbrough doesn't have the size or explosiveness to thrive at power forward. He seems like a fourth big man in a rotation playing a limited role. That's not what you are looking for at No. 13, not when potential high-upside players like Earl Clark and Holiday are still on the board

.

WTF were the Pacers thinking?

It's pretty simple, really. He was the BWPA (best white player available). The Jazz are known to employ that draft and trade strategy as well.

Please tell me you're joking?

[verbal8]

WTF were the Pacers thinking?

As much as the Pacers pick is a reach, I think it shows the lack of legit post players in this draft. I makes it all the more shocking that Blair dropped so far.

[Dat2U]

fishercob wrote:

nate33 wrote:
Think about this for a minute:

Some have argued that we weren't candidates for the VC or RJ trades for financial reasons. Well, if that's true, then it follows that we fully intend to let one or both of Foye and Miller walk.

If we have the money to resign them both, then we had the money for RJ or VC. Only RJ and VC were obtained without the #5 pick.

Perhaps, but it ignores the fact that RJ and VC are worse fits for this team than Miller and Foye. If Carter and RJ were truly the alternatives to this trade then I have no problem with it.

And yeah, Orlando has issues now -- Vince is a nice fit there and all, but they're going to have to work some...um...magic to replace Gortat, Battie, Hedo and Rafer.

Now this is really debatable. I understand the RJ argument but VC in my opinion is a far superior player and an ideal fit at the SG. When Gil was out the biggest problem this team had was a lack of a player that could excel at creating his own shot for himself and others off the dribble. Nick Young had the ability but not the b-ball IQ or consistency to do so effectively.

Right now we've surrounded Gil with more talent but there all jump shooters. Even Foye who came in to the league as a slasher has become more of a shooter with range. While we needed the shooting, even with Gil healthy, I always thought we needed a secondary option that could create his own shot and get easier shots for CB & AJ.

I don't buy the notion that VC would mess up chemistry. He's always been a reluctant first option and that's probably the biggest knock against his entire career. He's always been a willing passer and surrounding him with two of his best friends in the world in Jamison & Haywood would have made him incredibly happy. If we could have gotten him without giving up a major piece, we shouldn't have hesitated to do so.

Edit: Ok rant coming...

It sounds like the only perfect fits on the Wizards to some is the same players that EG trades for. I know people talked about Miller for a while but no one was calling Foye a perfect fit until he got here.

EG just does no wrong I guess. None of his moves can questioned, and the ones that are usually get blamed on Pollin. The guy is infallable. We've never won a 2nd round game. We never won more than 45 games with him. We went 19-63 in his fifth season here. We sell off 2nd rd picks like candy b/c of his other moves. Were so limited cap wise b/c of his signings that every move we make has to save us money.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just smoking something. I guess I should be praising Ernie for simply NOT being Wes Unseld, John Nash or Michael Jordan. Because that's what the rest of you seem to do.

[Wizardspride]

WTF were the Pacers thinking?

As much as the Pacers pick is a reach, I think it shows the lack of legit post players in this draft. I makes it all the more shocking that Blair dropped so far.

Or its an indictment of Blair's talent level.

[LyricalRico]

It sounds like the only perfect fits on the Wizards to some is the same players that EG trades for. I know people talked about Miller for a while but no one was calling Foye a perfect fit until he got here.

Speaking for myself I was one of the first to propose trades for Mike Miller back around the trade deadline. I've always thought he was a good fit. I also proposed a couple of Foye trades after his rookie year that many here shot down. Sure, most of the talk we've done in the last few weeks has focused on bigger names, but those guys have been on my radar for a while.

[miller31time]

The Suns insider and Ric Bucher is saying that Amare to the Warriors is a done deal. The only thing left to be determined is whether Stephen Curry will be included in the trade or not.

Damn.

[mohammed10]

The Suns insider and Ric Bucher is saying that Amare to the Warriors is a done deal. The only thing left to be determined is whether Stephen Curry will be included in the trade or not.

Damn.

Insert generic *Damn you, Ernie!* post here

[closg00]

I guess we'll be competing with the Kings for bigs according to the wiretap.

[nate33]

The Suns insider and Ric Bucher is saying that Amare to the Warriors is a done deal. The only thing left to be determined is whether Stephen Curry will be included in the trade or not.

Damn.

Insert generic *Damn you, Ernie!* post here

Nah. EG isn't at fault here. Golden State is paying an awful lot for Amare. I'm glad we didn't put together an equivalent offer.

[miller31time]

The Suns insider and Ric Bucher is saying that Amare to the Warriors is a done deal. The only thing left to be determined is whether Stephen Curry will be included in the trade or not.

Damn.

Insert generic *Damn you, Ernie!* post here

Nah. EG isn't at fault here. Golden State is paying an awful lot for Amare. I'm glad we didn't put together an equivalent offer.

You really think they're paying a lot? I keep hearing this opinion and I don't really get it.

Biedrins is a nice player and an excellent rebounder but he's a poor defender and doesn't really have a post game. Belinelli and Wright are both busts. Azibuike is an average guard.

Now, if they add Curry to the deal, it's a decent trade but without Stephen, I really don't think it's all too good for Phoenix.

[Kanyewest]

You really think they're paying a lot? I keep hearing this opinion and I don't really get it.

Biedrins is a nice player and an excellent rebounder but he's a poor defender and doesn't really have a post game. Belinelli and Wright are both busts. Azibuike is an average guard.

Now, if they add Curry to the deal, it's a decent trade but without Stephen, I really don't think it's all too good for Phoenix.

Considering that Nelly is allergic to playing big men, I would not call Wright a bust yet. Belinelli isn't a bust either for someone who shoots a decent % and is pretty much a 40% 3 point shooter. BTW remember all those summer league saying about how the Wizards really screwed up since Belinelli dropped 50 in a summer league game. Azibuke is an above average shooting guard, maybe just an average starting shooting guard. But the Warriors seem to find guards just like that (Morrow, Ellis) so it's not that big of a loss.

It's a decent trade for Golden State because the Warriors are essentially giving up Biedrins for Amare. But I expect all the Warriors to play much better alongside Steve Nash especially Brandan Wright. To put up a similar package, the Wizards for starters, would have to include Butler, Young, and either Blatche or McGee.

[MJG]

You really think they're paying a lot? I keep hearing this opinion and I don't really get it.

Biedrins is a nice player and an excellent rebounder but he's a poor defender and doesn't really have a post game. Belinelli and Wright are both busts. Azibuike is an average guard.

Now, if they add Curry to the deal, it's a decent trade but without Stephen, I really don't think it's all too good for Phoenix.

Just by the numbers (I don't pay attention to Golden State, so that's the best I can do when talking about their players), I think it's questionable if Amare is all that much better than Biedrins alone. Amare does score a fair amount more, but Biedrins destroys him in rebounding, and is slightly better in most other categories (steals, FG%, blocks, assists, turnovers). If you skip over last year and look at Amare at his absolute best, most of the stats are actually pretty similar between them, except again for scoring (strongly in favor of Amare) and rebounding (strongly in favor of Biedrins). If Amare is better, it's not by all that much. And that's without considering age (at the start of next season, Amare will be 27, Biedrins 23) and contract (Amare will likely make the max next summer, Biedrins is signed for 5 years, $45 million). Actually, the more I'm typing this up, the more I'm thinking that if we were allowed to magically pluck one of these two for our own squad, I'd lean towards Biedrins.

It's pretty early to call Wright a bust. He's only had two years playing under big-hating Nelson, and has put up really solid per-minute numbers (16/8.5/1/1/2 per 36). His numbers are actually pretty similar to McGee's, and we all know he's a future stud

I can't argue with Belinelli. He might have some kind of a role as a three point shooting specialist, but he's essentially a throw-in.

I think Curry's inclusion is what pushes most over the edge, to call the trade too in favor of the Suns. The difference between Biedrins and Stoudemire should be more than covered by the inclusion of Wright; adding a second quality prospect is just too much.

To put up a similar package, the Wizards for starters, would have to include Butler, Young, and either Blatche or McGee.

Agreed. I think a comparable package from us would be Butler, McGee, Young, and maybe either Crittenton or McGuire.

[Hoopalotta]

I love listening to this Khan guy spin his picks here. This guy has talent, a world class huckster oozing 'smarm' that's second to none; he reminds me of the smiling hosts they bring onto HBO to talk up the summer movies that really suck. He lies so well that you wonder if he believes it; could go all day too. It's not unlike Kevin Spacey in 'The Usual Suspects'.

I mean, after listening to that guy, I'm wondering if they made a mistake in getting rid of Lawson. Give it a shot now, they could run the wishbone! Bring in a good kicker, and.....must pull awaaay....some kind of mind control.....

And you know, he's saying what the lineup is going to be like before he's even hired a coach. He's telling any coach that is hired that Flynn needs to become a two guard. The audacity.

Suffice to say I think Phil Jackson isn't coming.

That is one creepy cat.

[Hoopalotta]

I'm wondering what Orlando is going to do.

If Turko-lugo is off to join Pritchard's flock up in Portland, which makes a lot of sense, it would seem that, if Portland has some ideas about a second free agent (Kidd as rumored?), they might do well to work out a sign and trade with the Magic. And it doesn't have to be balanced in salary either. Outlaw for Turk-man would be a huge boost to the magic at just one year for $4 million (I think that's right).

However, I think the Magic are at about $67 million or so with only eight players. If they don't pull that off, I'd say very difficult for them to bring in much more in the way of talent. I think they are particularly vulnerable with depth at the 1 and the 5. I wonder if Atlanta tries to pluck Gorat? They might do it just to be a pain.

They could be treading pickle juice if they aren't able to pull a rabbit out. Not a terrible place to remain static at 59 wins, but not ideal either.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Turkoglu just gets paid, but goes to a losing team like Detroit, I think he'll be as unhappy as Larry Hughes was when he left the Wizards.

I see Turkoglu opting out as a lose for him and a lose for the Magic.