Secret Sauce: The Terry Rozier Thread

HornetJail · Post #681 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:23 pm

this season is a wash. I have a very hard time caring about Terry's %s this year, he's in a role he will never play again after this season.

Post #682 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 5:19 pm

Rich4114 wrote:I realize he’s playing much more ball dominant without LaMelo and DSJ but this season has really exposed how I inefficient and one dimensional Terry is.

I think it just shows that he's not a primary playmaker or creator, which we already knew. This season he still has the highest C&S 3PT% of all rotation players (other than guys like McGowens and Maledon who haven't played much) at 36.5%. He's got a pretty deep bag, but he can't be a primary initiator or creator for extended portions of the season or **** is gonna go south.

I don't think this season season has really taught us anything new about Terry. If he's your PG and he's not playing next to a bunch of ball movers and facilitators that also can shoot, you're gonna have a bad time.

Post #683 » by **JDR720** » Tue Jan 3, 2023 4:43 am

Read on Twitter

Post #684 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:04 pm

Fun facts: Rozier's steals per game have almost halved while his turnovers per game have almost doubled from last season despite his assists per game being very similar to last year. His MPG have increased very slightly from 33.7 to 35.6. Hopefully those minutes start to trend down with Melo, DSJ and Martin back from injuries as he is a very negative defender, not a playmaker and has poor scoring efficiency.

His FG% has dropped from 44.4% to 41.3% and his 3P% has fallen off a cliff (no pun intended) from 37.4% to 32.5%.

He's enjoying that four year contract security.

JMAC3 · Post #685 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:32 pm

luciano-davidwesley wrote:Fun facts: Rozier's steals per game have almost halved while his turnovers per game have almost doubled from last season despite his assists per game being very similar to last year. His MPG have increased very slightly from 33.7 to 35.6. Hopefully those minutes start to trend down with Melo, DSJ and Martin back from injuries as he is a very negative defender, not a playmaker and has poor scoring efficiency.

His FG% has dropped from 44.4% to 41.3% and his 3P% has fallen off a cliff (no pun intended) from 37.4% to 32.5%.

He's enjoying that four year contract security.

2023 has been better for him, over his last 7 he is averaging 26 ppg on 50/38/84.

Hornets are going to dump him for a garbage pick and he is going to drop 30 in playoffs and we will be mocked for moving him.

But hey at least we will cap space so we can sign Lonnie Walker to 16 million per year.

amcoolio · Post #686 » by **amcoolio** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:18 am

JMAC3 wrote:
luciano-davidwesley wrote:Fun facts: Rozier's steals per game have almost halved while his turnovers per game have almost doubled from last season despite his assists per game being very similar to last year. His MPG have increased very slightly from 33.7 to 35.6. Hopefully those minutes start to trend down with Melo, DSJ and Martin back from injuries as he is a very negative defender, not a playmaker and has poor scoring efficiency.

His FG% has dropped from 44.4% to 41.3% and his 3P% has fallen off a cliff (no pun intended) from 37.4% to 32.5%.

He's enjoying that four year contract security.

2023 has been better for him, over his last 7 he is averaging 26 ppg on 50/38/84.

Hornets are going to dump him for a garbage pick and he is going to drop 30 in playoffs and we will be mocked for moving him.

But hey at least we will cap space so we can sign Lonnie Walker to 16 million per year.

Any player we move will have a chance to look good on a team with a Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Booker, LeBron level player, so I'm not sure why we care if he drops 30 in the playoffs or why that even matters

Post #687 » by **Diop** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:23 am

he's a jump shooter, the ankle injury was always going to affect his %'s, it's tanked his trade value though.

JMAC3 · Post #688 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:28 am

amcoolio wrote:
Any player we move will have a chance to look good on a team with a Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Booker, LeBron level player, so I'm not sure why we care if he drops 30 in the playoffs or why that even matters

Probably because we are giving up a 20 ppg hoping to to get lucky and find a 12 ppg scorer in return.

Post #689 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:31 am

JMAC3 wrote:
amcoolio wrote:
Any player we move will have a chance to look good on a team with a Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Booker, LeBron level player, so I'm not sure why we care if he drops 30 in the playoffs or why that even matters

Probably because we are giving up a 20 ppg hoping to to get lucky and find a 12 ppg scorer in return.

If the 12 ppg scorer plays defense, can pass and not the ugly chucky sh*t Rozier dishes up sign me up right now.

Post #690 » by **JDR720** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:41 am

Yeah, a 12pt 3&D player is better for the team than Rozier is.

JMAC3 · Post #691 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:44 am

JDR720 wrote:Yeah, a 12pt 3&D player is better for the team than Rozier is.

Now they are a good defender and good three point shooter too? How many guys picked 20-30 can do both and average 12 ppg?

Really high hopes for a late first is my point. 10% of the time he can fit your build. The other 90% we lose the trade awfully.

But lets just pray and hope we get the next Desmond Bane...

Post #692 » by **JDR720** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:54 am

We don't need to draft Desmond Bane. Getting Rozier's contract off the books is a primary reason to trade him. Him being a bad fit with Melo is another.

If a player doesn't fit with Melo, which Rozier doesn't since he can't defend, they shouldn't be on the team.

And speaking of draft picks. Rozier is a terrible fit with Wemby and Scoot too. And most of the other potential top 5 picks are either SG/SF as well.

Any way you cut it, Rozier needs to go. He'd be fine if he made 15M per year as a 6th man. But he is getting paid all-star money and isn't worth it.

JMAC3 · Post #693 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:19 am

JDR720 wrote:We don't need to draft Desmond Bane. Getting Rozier's contract off the books is a primary reason to trade him. Him being a bad fit with Melo is another.

If a player doesn't fit with Melo, which Rozier doesn't since he can't defend, they shouldn't be on the team.

And speaking of draft picks. Rozier is a terrible fit with Wemby and Scoot too. And most of the other potential top 5 picks are either SG/SF as well.

Any way you cut it, Rozier needs to go. He'd be fine if he made 15M per year as a 6th man. But he is getting paid all-star money and isn't worth it.

Rozier doesn't get paid like an All-Star though haha...
21.5 this year
23 next
25 next
26.5 next

Even if you look at next season, before more players are paid. His salary ranks 56th in the NBA and will probably be outside the top 65 after FA.

Guys paid between 20-26 million next year. John Collins, Julius Randle, Mike Conley, Wiggins, Simons, Barrett, Brogdon, Mikal Bridges, Aaron Gordon, Capela, Dinwiddie, Lonzo, Deandre Hunter, Keldon Johnson, Bojan Bogdanovic

Combined those guys have 3 allstar appearances total... they probably have played 100 seasons combined.

The notion that Rozier is supremely overpaid is wild to me.

Post #694 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:32 am

I don't think he's particularly overpaid. He is a little overpaid but it is more the four years you are committed to meh at a decent chunk of the salary cap that sucks. He also seems to be the unofficial "leader" on the team but I'm not actually sure his style of play or his ways are what I'd want our young prospects emulating or learning.

I just don't think he plays winning basketball and he does not really impact the win column how someone like Hayward does when healthy. So to me he's just an empty-stats, no-defence guy that I'd dump any day of the week for a guy with a >0% chance of becoming good on a FRP contract which we can control for 7+ years through restricted free agency if he hits.

This hypothetical player will also cost a few million salary per year for the next four years instead of the $75 million for the next three years Rozier is guaranteed if we do a Rozier for expiring filler + FRP type trade before this years trade deadline. If there are no suitors we hold onto him and try again next year, hoping he has a hot shooting start next season.

JMAC3 · Post #695 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:51 am

So if the NBA said hey you can cut Rozier, owe him no money moving forward would you do it?

Post #696 » by **luciano-davidwesley** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:20 am

Probably not, because a desperate contender will probably give us a late first for him.

Liver_Pooty · Post #697 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:31 am

Salaries have to match if we trade him more than likely. Highly doubt a team sends a pick and an expiring for him. Isn't like we can just send 25 million or whatever in salary for a pick straight up.

Post #698 » by **fatlever** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:57 am

best you can hope for with terry in a trade would be
1. expiring + 2nd
2. swap with another teams long term salary player who may be a better fit (example: duncan robinson)
3. young player w/ upside and bad salary filler
4. westbrook

JMAC3 · Post #699 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:11 am

fatlever wrote:best you can hope for with terry in a trade would be
1. expiring + 2nd
2. swap with another teams long term salary player who may be a better fit (example: duncan robinson)
3. young player w/ upside and bad salary filler
4. westbrook

Rozier is far from the worst contract in the league...

He is basically putting up Lavine and Beal numbers at half the cost. Some you have really lost your mind thinking 21 million is a lot of money to pay a player.

I would just hold onto him then take a 2nd or bad contract. Duncan Robinson can't even get minutes, Terry Rozier would be starting over Lowry for Heat.

Why would I take bad salary filler when Rozier is playing 25-30 minutes on nearly every team in the league.

Post #700 » by **fatlever** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:31 pm

Just trying to be realistic about what I think we could get in return for Terry if the organization decided to shop him this year.

I think you're letting his stats on a bad team cloud your perception of his value around the league.

There's not a huge Market for undersized shooting guards, who are terrible Defenders, and are in a down year shooting slump, with 3.5 years at 20+ remaining. Fair. ( for example, if Terry was a free agent this summer, I don't think anyone is paying him 3 years 70 mil. It's not a bad contract, but it's certainly not a good one)

The hope is that a playoff team would see the value in someone like Terry to come off the bench and provide some scoring punch to a second unit, hopefully get back to better percentages with his off ball shooting, which were a strength in the previous two seasons. And someone who can occasionally get hot and carry a team in a fourth quarter. But certainly, not someone you would rely on to play 35 minutes night in and night out as a shooting guard or a point guard where his defensive struggles would weigh down any decent playoff team. Maybe it works on a strong defensive team that can cover his deficiencies, like the Bucks.

And I know Kyle Lowry is getting older and having a bad year, but I wholeheartedly disagree that Terry would start over him in miami. Lowry brings leadership, intangibles and defense well beyond what Terry can provide to that team. Plus Terry is a rotten point guard.

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