Josh Giddey and OKC’s first real mistake

[cupcakesnake]

I don't really get why a team's 4th or 5th best player is getting so much criticism.

He's not an amazing fit on a Thunder team where his playmaking ability isn't super valuable. The team already has a primary an elite primary and secondary playmaker, so against plenty of matchups, it just makes more sense to pair those guys with more finishers, or guys who bring more defense adn spacing (Wiggins, Joe, Wallace).

He's a luxury right now for the Thunder, and one they don't always need. Everyone acting like he's some sort of liability are overrating his role in this offense. The Thunder are deep and versatile and Giddey is just one of the many options that can give them 30 quality minutes.

Most NBA teams are starved for playmaking. Giddey's skills would be highly valued on a different team. Imagine him in Phoenix, Brooklyn, New Orleans, Houston, San Antonio, Toronto, or Milwaukee. He's just a bit superfluous in OKC and they have other good options when Giddey's not useful in a mtachup.

[Blazing_royale]

He should come off the bench for OKC

[cgf]

People calling him bad are simply asinine. He is quite clearly doesn't fit, but clowns will proclaim a player, who already proved he has plenty of talent - bad. Few nights ago I have wrote about Petrovic and how a lot of NBA success is just about opportunity. But we have trash talkers not only write off players who maybe failed in the NBA, but also players who clearly didn't, but obviously put outside their element. Same experts I bet proclaimed Gobert trash last year, but now pretending they knew all along he was goat of some kind. Who are you even kidding...

Not even bother about calling a kid, who at 19, ALLEGEDLY slept with some 16 year old, a pedophile... Asinine thread. Maybe it was in fact a mistake on OKC part for not flipping him faster, as he simply doesnt fit as ball handler, but not because Giddey is very very bad...

He's not a good defender and he is a terribly inefficient scorer, who's also a poor shooter. I agree that doesn't mean he's a terrible talent, because like all kids that's largely a function of streakiness, and he could well still improve his finishing & shooting enough to make his passing useful...but it also makes it hard to say that he's actually been good in the NBA so far.

I mean people roast Barrett for being inefficient, but compared to Giggity, RJ is just clinical.

[Harry Garris]

Giddey was a good corner 3 point shooter all regular season and he was on fire for the entire first round of the playoffs. I wouldn’t write him off because he had a cold game. He wasn’t even bad in game 1 he just didn’t get any looks.

Especially because Dallas is not doing anything new to defend Josh Giddey. They’re just leaving him open. When teams did that during the season he hit shots. When the Pelicans did that in round 1 he hit shots. 3 point shooting is something that operates on very high variance so I’m not surprised that he had a game where he didn’t hit shots, but I don’t think he just forgot how to shoot overnight.

[srhcan]

He's also a pedophile so I except he will get moved after this post season.

He's certainly not worth keeping with his controversy due to his lack of actual talent.

just go away, we are discussing basketball here

[KembaWalker]

They should be careful, over investing in bums like Giddey is how good cores quickly become unaffordable

[UcanUwill]

People calling him bad are simply asinine. He is quite clearly doesn't fit, but clowns will proclaim a player, who already proved he has plenty of talent - bad. Few nights ago I have wrote about Petrovic and how a lot of NBA success is just about opportunity. But we have trash talkers not only write off players who maybe failed in the NBA, but also players who clearly didn't, but obviously put outside their element. Same experts I bet proclaimed Gobert trash last year, but now pretending they knew all along he was goat of some kind. Who are you even kidding...

Not even bother about calling a kid, who at 19, ALLEGEDLY slept with some 16 year old, a pedophile... Asinine thread. Maybe it was in fact a mistake on OKC part for not flipping him faster, as he simply doesnt fit as ball handler, but not because Giddey is very very bad...

He's not a good defender and he is a terribly inefficient scorer, who's also a poor shooter. I agree that doesn't mean he's a terrible talent, because like all kids that's largely a function of streakiness, and he could well still improve his finishing & shooting enough to make his passing useful...but it also makes it hard to say that he's actually been good in the NBA so far.

I mean people roast Barrett for being inefficient, but compared to Giggity, RJ is just clinical.

Giddey has other qualities where he is clearly superior to Barrett, he is 6'8 PG and young. I agree that right now, with how NBA is played and what type of talent it has, Giddey is odd man out, because he is not a huge scoring threat, but he needs the ball. So he can be that type of player thats very good actually, just not a good NBA fit in general. But thats very pessimistic perspective, even this year, when fans were booing him (and calling him pedo for honestly bunch of nothingness) and his morale was very low, he still had amazing games when SGA was out and Giddey was given the ball. I think saying he hasnt been good in the NBA is unfair, he proved he can be very good before he could even drink in the States, 6'8 interesting finishing technique, he just needs to learn to shoot better, it would open his passing, he has plenty of time. Still very good with the ball and the type of player who has talent to average weakish triple double. I mean put young Jason Kidd and make him off ball, he would be awful too, and I am not saying Giddey is as good as Jason Kidd, but he is pretty much same archetype of player.

[Knightfall]

If hes a mistake as a gm you did a really good job.

[srhcan]

I think he ends up on the Suns. Nurk, 2031 1st for Giddy, maybe one of their 2024 1sts. Something like that. OKC gets another lottery ticket and eats salary for a big man of situational value.

this is a good trade but Suns only have 1 competent big man Nurkic and they will lose him in this trade

[BobbyPortisEyes]

I disagree. The Thunder still have a lot of picks coming their way which are sure to yield some young and exciting talent. Giddey is a very intelligent player and he can groom these young guys to one day take over.

[cgf]

People calling him bad are simply asinine. He is quite clearly doesn't fit, but clowns will proclaim a player, who already proved he has plenty of talent - bad. Few nights ago I have wrote about Petrovic and how a lot of NBA success is just about opportunity. But we have trash talkers not only write off players who maybe failed in the NBA, but also players who clearly didn't, but obviously put outside their element. Same experts I bet proclaimed Gobert trash last year, but now pretending they knew all along he was goat of some kind. Who are you even kidding...

Not even bother about calling a kid, who at 19, ALLEGEDLY slept with some 16 year old, a pedophile... Asinine thread. Maybe it was in fact a mistake on OKC part for not flipping him faster, as he simply doesnt fit as ball handler, but not because Giddey is very very bad...

He's not a good defender and he is a terribly inefficient scorer, who's also a poor shooter. I agree that doesn't mean he's a terrible talent, because like all kids that's largely a function of streakiness, and he could well still improve his finishing & shooting enough to make his passing useful...but it also makes it hard to say that he's actually been good in the NBA so far.

I mean people roast Barrett for being inefficient, but compared to Giggity, RJ is just clinical.

Giddey has other qualities where he is clearly superior to Barrett, he is 6'8 PG and young. I agree that right now, with how NBA is played and what type of talent it has, Giddey is odd man out, because he is not a huge scoring threat, but he needs the ball. So he can be that type of player thats very good actually, just not a good NBA fit in general. But thats very pessimistic look at things, even this year, when fans were booing him (and calling him pedo for honestly bunch of nothingness) and his morale was very low, he still had amazing games when SGA was out and Giddey was given the ball. I think saying he hasnt been good in the NBA is unfair, he proved he can be very good before he could even drink in the States, 6'8 interesting finishing technique, he just needs to learn to shoot better, it would open his passing, he has plenty of time. Still very good with the ball and the type of player who has talent to average weakish triple double. I mean put young Jason Kidd and make him off ball, he would be awful too, and I am not saying Giddey is as good as Jason Kidd, but he is pretty much same archetype of player.

Giddey is a better rebounder and a playmaker, but he turns the ball over more and Barrett's playmaking is likely to look a lot more impressive as his gravity increases...given that Barrett has consistently flashed much better vision & passing-touch than his #s suggest, he just doesn't draw enough attention yet to really utilize it well and is still too focused on his own scoring.

I admittedly was not a fan of Giddey's coming out, felt like a poor man's Rubio in the worst ways...despite my having been a huge Rubio fan...but I don't think it's unfair to say he hasn't been good in the NBA yet. Again people say that about RJ even though RJ has had a 2-3 month stretch after the holidays when he was pretty awesome almost every year...last season was the only exception but he then had that strong playoff run.

So why should we judge Giddey by his stand out performances if we judge Barrett by his struggles?


I think calling him Josh Giggity is funny, but you're right that people go over-board with the pedo stuff. Though I just chalk that up to Americans' weird obsession with teenage sex...and America's issues with sex is a topic that we don't have enough time before the heat-death of the universe to discuss in adequate depth

EDIT:
Quality is just as important as archetype. Brunson is awesome but that same archetype in a less talented player and you've got someone who struggles to get off the bench for a good team. So just because Giddey may share an archetype with Rubio & Kidd, doesn't mean he should get the same role that Kidd had at this level.

[cgf]

I disagree. The Thunder still have a lot of picks coming their way which are sure to yield some young and exciting talent. Giddey is a very intelligent player and he can groom these young guys to one day take over.

I see what you did there

[srhcan]

Masai went to Australia to see Giddey before the draft. Masai contemplated moving down the draft and pick Giddey later, before deciding to stay at his number and pick Barnes. Giddey is a good player; he may need to move to a better situation than OKC.

[Big nick]

He’s so so so bad. -27 in 28 minutes this series.

The Thunder and Presti have been incredibly impressive, getting the one seed and assembling one of the greatest warchests of picks ever. They undoubtedly have one of the best futures in the 2020s, almost every other franchise would want to be in their position. However…

Giddey is their biggest mistake in this new era. They held onto him for too long, and now he’s being exposed for what he is - a clear negative in a playoff setting. His lack of shooting murders their 5-out concept and his spacing allows Dallas to play Lively or Gafford in the paint without fear of being burnt. He also demands to be the primary ball handler and plays poor defense. I understand he had some good stretches vs New Orleans but this guy is not it. They can’t keep him here.

OKC got too cute at the deadline imo and failed to seize the opportunity. Washed Gordon Hayward was not moving any needle, any of my Hornets fans could’ve told you that. Giddey and picks could’ve gotten you Anunoby, for example.. they also easily had the picks to get Gafford or Washington who would’ve provided crucial help in areas of need.

Instead they kept Giddey, and if they lose this series, not shopping him aggressively enough will be their downfall.

Everyone said the same thing about dort.

[ConSarnit]

Giddey was a good corner 3 point shooter all regular season and he was on fire for the entire first round of the playoffs. I wouldn’t write him off because he had a cold game. He wasn’t even bad in game 1 he just didn’t get any looks.

Especially because Dallas is not doing anything new to defend Josh Giddey. They’re just leaving him open. When teams did that during the season he hit shots. When the Pelicans did that in round 1 he hit shots. 3 point shooting is something that operates on very high variance so I’m not surprised that he had a game where he didn’t hit shots, but I don’t think he just forgot how to shoot overnight.

I think the benefit of having Gafford roam is far greater for Dallas than it was for NOP to have JV roam, and that’s why Giddey might be a liability in this series. Gafford’s best defensive skill is rim protection in non-pnr action. OKC playing Giddey allows Dallas to maximize their defense more so than NOP was able to with JV. Allowing a good rim protector to roam for 20+ mpg is likely more valuable than the damage of Giddey hitting an additional 1-2 3’s over the course of the series.

Edit: meant to address the bolded too. Giddey was only good from the left corner (38%). That’s not even that great of a number for a player’s “good” corner. Basically if Giddey is not directly in the left corner DAL has no incentive to guard him.

[Big nick]

He's also a pedophile so I except he will get moved after this post season.

He's certainly not worth keeping with his controversy due to his lack of actual talent.

He's not a pedophile so stop with that bs.

[HotelVitale]

Josh Giddy post all star
Is averaging 14/7/5.4 on the 4th most usage on the team, a 2.2 A:T rate, hitting 36% from 3.

If that's a mistake from your 4th option 21 year old. You've done a **** correct. His

His playmaking and height really help the thunder. You basically have a 6"8" SG/SF. He's poor in the case of he's not a great rebounder and he's the worst defender in the starting 5 for OKC, if he's the one you have to attack you are doing well

These type of threads often devolve into 'is Giddey a fraud?!#$?' but there is a real question here. We know he can produce solid #s and does his general thing (big passing guard) pretty well in the NBA, but it's still valid to consider if they should keep him around. The same questions that always surrounded him still apply--he's at best a poor shooting threat (even if he sometimes hits open shots teams give him), he's not a great athlete on either end, and his game and limitations make him a tough fit for lots of good teams. OKC is serious about contending and it kinda seems to me like they'll need to figure out how to use Giddey differently or else move on.

Also as a sidenote Giddey's #s aren't very good this year--12/6/5 on 54.7% TS--but he also only played 25mpg. He would definitely produce better in a starting role on a lesser team. But it's also an issue that he can produce on some teams and be sort of 'eh not really' on others. Tough player to assign value to.

I disagree. The Thunder still have a lot of picks coming their way which are sure to yield some young and exciting talent. Giddey is a very intelligent player and he can groom these young guys to one day take over.

He's obviously useful but tou can't pay a guy like Giddey big money to be intelligent, esp not a contender like OKC where every $ matters. Also OKC has lots of pick but they also only have a few roster spots that could possibly open up for them, plus they're ready to go now and can't really wait around for some first rounder to hit and be their 4th-6th best players.

[Slimjimzv]

All the pedo trolls need to eff off. It's inappropriate, offensive, inaccurate, immature, and distracting. If you want to peddle your BS, go to some dumb jokes forum and do it there.

Giddey was a disaster yesterday. Every time the Thunder would make a run, Giddey would come in and kill it with bad shooting, bad defense, and turnovers. I feel for the kid because it's been a rough season, and you don't want to see him end it this way, but I really think Daignault needs to bench him and go with Wiggins in his place. They'd still be 8 deep with SGA, JDub, Chet, Dort, Wiggins, Joe, JWill, and Wallace. That's plenty deep for a solid playoff run.

[shrink]

If OKC faces MIN next round, a poorly-shooting Giddey let’s Gobert help on the other four Thunder players even more.

[HotelVitale]

All the pedo trolls need to eff off. It's inappropriate, offensive, inaccurate, immature, and distracting. If you want to peddle your BS, go to some dumb jokes forum and do it there.

Giddey was a disaster yesterday. Every time the Thunder would make a run, Giddey would come in and kill it with bad shooting, bad defense, and turnovers. I feel for the kid because it's been a rough season, and you don't want to see him end it this way, but I really think Daignault needs to bench him and go with Wiggins in his place. They'd still be 8 deep with SGA, JDub, Chet, Dort, Wiggins, Joe, JWill, and Wallace. That's plenty deep for a solid playoff run.

Agree on both points. Don't want to overreact to one game but it really did look bad yesterday. I don't love the OP's framing of this--why jump immediately to the cheap 'the FO's incompetent!' stuff before actually disscussing Giddey's fit--but after the game it seems like a real discussion and something we'll all keep an eye on this series. They can't live with him effecting the flow like that, and even if he plays better the fit stuff could be real against a team like DAL.