Stein's all-star selections

[Hendrix]

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Jamison is having a better season than Bosh.

No. I would go into further detail but I gotta go. But that's just wrong.

[bstein14]

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Right, and his 44% from the field justify that statement.

Jamison shoots 3's.

His adjusted FG% is 48.5% which is exactly the same as Bosh's.

I'm not saying he's better than Bosh, but this season statistically he's right there with him.

Jamison is more deserving of being the 2nd all-star on the Wizards than Calderon is of being the second all-star on the Raptors

[ImissJordan]

Butler is having a career year and Jamison joins Dwight Howard as the only two players in the East Averaging 20+ PPG and 10+ RPG.

Jamison is having a better season than Bosh.

He is?

First things first, Bosh played through injuries/rust for the month of November, yet still managed to post 19 points and 8 rebounds per game (since then, he's been averaging 25/10 on 50 per cent shooting).

Secondly, the numbers still favor Bosh now:

Chris Bosh: 22.5 points, 9.2 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.9 steals, 1.1 blocks, 49 per cent from the field, 85 per cent from free throw line, 50 per cent from three in 36 minutes per game.

Antawn Jamison: 21.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.5 blocks, 44 per cent from the field, 75 per cent from the free throw line, 34 per cent from three in 39 minutes per game.

So....aside from rebounding (where Jamison is averaging one more rebound than Bosh in three additional minutes), how can you possibly arrive at such a conclusion? Bosh is outplaying Jamison in just about every statistical category!

Edited to add: I agree that Jamison shoots far more three's than Chris - which should help explain why Bosh's three point shooting percentage is far greater than Antawn's - but that doesn't make him any more efficient.

[bstein14]

Ok perhaps he isn't having a better season but he is definitely right there with him statisically this season.

[sattu]

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Jose Calderon is a good pick, he plays like a top 6 PG when he starts IMO, but he doesn't average double digit assists as a starter, it's more like 9.3(Yeah, i'm picky)

Btw, you have the gayest avatar i've seen so far..

the guy in the avatar is waiting for you outside because you said that about him.

[ImissJordan]

Ok perhaps he isn't having a better season but he is definitely right there with him statisically this season.

Antawn is having a wonderful season and certainly is more deserving than Jose Calderon, but I still feel that Bosh's stats this season don't accurately reflect the way he he's been playing this season (when you factor in the injuries he's been playing through).

[MagicFan3]

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Coaches do consider defense and team record in all-star voting. Has Ben Wallace been an all-star? When Detroit had a 35-5 record in 06 they had 4 all-stars. If they were 15-25 they might not have even had one.

To think otherwise is ridiculous.

It's about how much they impact their team's record.

[NetsForce]

1. Did you make my Caldy avatar yet?

2. That sarah chick ripped you apart in last night's game thread, I think she has a crush on you.

3. Why do his picks suck? I actually liked them. I guess Rip and Calderon are up for debate in the East. I thought the West was good, a lot of guards, but all deserving.

1. Yes, I'll post it when I get off work.
2. I just read the gamethread, holy poop, my fanbase is expanding at an unprecedented rate.
3. They're not as bad as I thought... Now that I actually looked at them.

[miller31time]

I don't think anyone could make their West predictions and have a majority of people agree with them.

There's a big problem out West - There are a lot of deserving point guards, who should probably make it over the other 4 positions. But then, you have the problem of too many point guards and not enough roster balance.

I do think he has the East basically down. If there should be a correction, it would be Calderon, but it's hard to turn down Jose who is having a tremendous season.

[nate33]

Secondly, the numbers still favor Bosh now:

Chris Bosh: 22.5 points, 9.2 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 0.9 steals, 1.1 blocks, 49 per cent from the field, 85 per cent from free throw line, 50 per cent from three in 36 minutes per game.

Antawn Jamison: 21.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.9 steals, 0.5 blocks, 44 per cent from the field, 75 per cent from the free throw line, 34 per cent from three in 39 minutes per game.

Posting the percentages that way can be misleading. Player A can have higher percentages in FG%, FT% and 3P%, but Player B can still be the more efficient scorer if a greater proportion of his attempts are 3-pointers and free throws.

Use TS%. That's a better indicator of shooting efficiency. Here are Bosh and Jamison's pace adjusted per 40 numbers with TS%:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
jamison,anta 21.9 10.7  1.7  0.9  0.5  1.4 .486 .528 20.1
bosh,chris   25.8 10.5  2.5  1.1  1.3  2.6 .490 .582 25.2

They're both equally efficient from the floor, which is why their eFG% are practically identical. Bosh gets to the line a ton more which makes his TS% much better. Bosh is clearly having a better statistical season.

[rsavaj]

He left Amare out? I know his defense sucks, but he's still a Top 5 big man this year.

[nate33]

I don't think anyone could make their West predictions and have a majority of people agree with them.

There's a big problem out West - There are a lot of deserving point guards, who should probably make it over the other 4 positions. But then, you have the problem of too many point guards and not enough roster balance.

I do think he has the East basically down. If there should be a correction, it would be Calderon, but it's hard to turn down Jose who is having a tremendous season.

Agreed.

The East picks are good except you can argue that they should send one more SF instead of Calderon. Richard Jefferson, Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace or Hedo Turkaglu could go in place of Calderon. Then just slide Butler or Pierce over to SG.

But I won't complain about Stein's picks. Calderon's team is winning. He has as much of a claim to the all-star game as anybody else.

[ImissJordan]

Posting the percentages that way can be misleading. Player A can have higher percentages in FG%, FT% and 3P%, but Player B can still be the more efficient scorer if a greater proportion of his attempts are 3-pointers and free throws.

Use TS%. That's a better indicator of shooting efficiency. Here are Bosh and Jamison's pace adjusted per 40 numbers with TS%:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
jamison,anta 21.9 10.7  1.7  0.9  0.5  1.4 .486 .528 20.1
bosh,chris   25.8 10.5  2.5  1.1  1.3  2.6 .490 .582 25.2

They're both equally efficient from the floor, which is why their eFG% are practically identical. Bosh gets to the line a ton more which makes his TS% much better. Bosh is clearly having a better statistical season.

Thanks for that! You're clearly a better statistician than I am.

Either way, I stand correct. There is no way Jamison is having a better season than Bosh.

[GJense4181]

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O.k, fine. Would you share your picks with us?

Do it.

My reserve votes:
Kidd/Billups
Wade/Pierce
James/Butler/Jefferson
Garnett/Jamison/Smith
Howard/Bosh
I would finaggle Pierce in as a G-F and Bosh as a F-C, but those are the players I feel are the most deserving. If Jefferson/Smith were to be replaced by Carter/GeraldWallace I'd have no qualms, either.
Note that I am not being a homer and including SG Rip Hamilton or C Rasheed Wallace when there are F's having much better seasons.

[Kosta]

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1. Yes, I'll post it when I get off work.
2. I just read the gamethread, holy poop, my fanbase is expanding at an unprecedented rate.
3. They're not as bad as I thought... Now that I actually looked at them.

Sweet. Post it in your thread on the Nets board.

[RJM]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080126-27

EAST RESERVES

Forwards: Caron Butler, Paul Pierce

Guards: Chauncey Billups, Jose Calderon

Center: Chris Bosh

Wild Cards: Antawn Jamison, Rip Hamilton

WEST RESERVES

Forwards: Dirk Nowitzki, Carlos Boozer

Guards: Chris Paul, Steve Nash

Center: Marcus Camby

Wild Cards: Brandon Roy, Baron Davis

What do you think?

He's nice and everything, but.....

[5DOM]

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He's nice and everything, but.....

actually its not that .

he should definitely get some mention (even if he doesnt make it).

but i agree that east should select one more sf than a pg like calderon.

forwards were playing great this season.

[Raptor_Guy]

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Butler is having a career year and Jamison joins Dwight Howard as the only two players in the East Averaging 20+ PPG and 10+ RPG.

Jamison is having a better season than Bosh.

No. Bosh is averaging almost 30ppg over his last 5 games and carrying his team to big wins (not that I'm saying Jamison isn't). He's also averaging 25.5ppg over the last 10 games, he's healthy now.

[Schad]

For those struggling to understand the current fascination with Calderon, keep in mind that there's something of a mini-revolution afoot thanks to the rise of the advanced statistics, which are starting to work their way into mainstream analysis. As a result, efficiency has become the new buzzword; guys like Hollinger rely on it, and even more traditional sportswriters like Stein are starting to take note.

And Calderon is the Spanish God of Basketball Efficiency: he's not flashy, his basic stats don't shout at you, but few players touch him in the advanced metrics...he's 22nd in PER (a stat that tends to undervalue point guards to a degree...except Chris Paul, because he's a monster) and rising, 1st in pure passer rating, 1st in assist rate yet tied for 14th in the entire league in turnover rate, 15th in TS% and shooting 50/40/90.

Basically, he's the perfect player through which guys like Hollinger can advance their new way of thinking about basketball; IMO, the ABPR guys are pushing him not only because they consider him worthy, but because his inclusion would provide a major foothold for their analysis in mainstream basketball discourse. And the 'old-school' basketball journalists are starting to follow suit partially out of a fear of being left behind.

Here's a prediction: if TJ Ford does not return until late in the season, and Calderon continues his torrid pace and ups his raw statistics to the 14/10/4 neighbourhood, Hollinger will drop him an 'honourable mention' for MVP as a means of stirring the pot.

However, even though I'm a Raptors fan and a stathead, I won't be up in arms if Calderon fails to make the All-Star team...he's borderline, and there are a number of players that likely have a more legitimate claim to one of the reserve spots. Still, it's great to see him receive such widespread acclaim.

[miller31time]

For those struggling to understand the current fascination with Calderon, keep in mind that there's something of a mini-revolution afoot thanks to the rise of the advanced statistics, which are starting to work their way into mainstream analysis. As a result, efficiency has become the new buzzword; guys like Hollinger rely on it, and even more traditional sportswriters like Stein are starting to take note.

And Calderon is the Spanish God of Basketball Efficiency: he's not flashy, his basic stats don't shout at you, but few players touch him in the advanced metrics...he's 22nd in PER (a stat that tends to undervalue point guards to a degree...except Chris Paul, because he's a monster) and rising, 1st in pure passer rating, 1st in assist rate yet tied for 14th in the entire league in turnover rate, 15th in TS% and shooting 50/40/90.

Basically, he's the perfect player through which guys like Hollinger can advance their new way of thinking about basketball; IMO, the ABPR guys are pushing him not only because they consider him worthy, but because his inclusion would provide a major foothold for their analysis in mainstream basketball discourse. And the 'old-school' basketball journalists are starting to follow suit partially out of a fear of being left behind.

Here's a prediction: if TJ Ford does not return until late in the season, and Calderon continues his torrid pace and ups his raw statistics to the 14/10/4 neighbourhood, Hollinger will drop him an 'honourable mention' for MVP as a means of stirring the pot.

However, even though I'm a Raptors fan and a stathead, I won't be up in arms if Calderon fails to make the All-Star team...he's borderline, and there are a number of players that likely have a more legitimate claim to one of the reserve spots. Still, it's great to see him receive such widespread acclaim.

Excellent post and I agree whole-heartedly. He's having a fantastic season, even if his raw numbers don't jump out at you. No one should be mad if he makes it, because there's reams of data that show he's at least ASG-worthy.