NBA Expansion

[Promezclan]

Why? There is no cross pollination in the market shares and each of the markets has 3 million people in it, making them both top 20 markets each. Not to mention 100 miles in between them.

3 million is tiny, though, if that's the complete population hemmed in by two other teams. The average team should have 330 million US population/30 teams = 11 million in its market. For example, the Cavaliers are a small market, yet Ohio has almost 12 million people.

Bro... only two markets in the US have more than 11 million people. What are you talking about?

Markets are not defined by metro areas.

[Ducklett]

3 million is tiny, though, if that's the complete population hemmed in by two other teams. The average team should have 330 million US population/30 teams = 11 million in its market. For example, the Cavaliers are a small market, yet Ohio has almost 12 million people.

Bro... only two markets in the US have more than 11 million people. What are you talking about?

Markets are not defined by metro areas.

By who exactly?

[LakerLegend]

Why? There is no cross pollination in the market shares and each of the markets has 3 million households in it, making them both top 20 markets each.

The NBA will not cannibalize itself like that. Orlando is what, 90-120 miles from Tampa? Of course they draw fans from Tampa.

It doesn't make any business sense to put a team there over more isolated markets.

100 miles is nothing, I think realistically the NBA wouldn't any new team within 200 miles of an existing team.

I'm glad you said that. Seattle to Portland is only ~160 miles, so they shouldn't get a team either.

Apples and oranges.

Seattle is a legacy franchise, and Portland/Seattle are technically in different states. They don't have the fan/business overlap that Orlando/Tampa do.

Seattle is also a much wealthier area, the GDP of the metro area is much larger than Tampa's.

The NBA doesn't gain anything by putting a team in Tampa that it doesn't gain more of by putting teams in other markets.

[Ducklett]

The NBA will not cannibalize itself like that. Orlando is what, 90-120 miles from Tampa? Of course they draw fans from Tampa.

It doesn't make any business sense to put a team there over more isolated markets.

100 miles is nothing, I think realistically the NBA wouldn't any new team within 200 miles of an existing team.

I'm glad you said that. Seattle to Portland is only ~160 miles, so they shouldn't get a team either.

Apples and oranges.

Seattle is a legacy franchise, and Portland/Seattle are technically in different states. They don't have the fan/business overlap that Orlando/Tampa do.

Seattle is also a much wealthier area, the GDP of the metro area is much larger than Tampa's.

Goalpost moving at its finest ladies and gents.

Clearly the NBA thought there was something to Tampa. They could have put them in Jacksonville if they specifically wanted the Raps to spend the year in Florida or some reason. They picked Tampa as a try out.

[LakerLegend]

I'm glad you said that. Seattle to Portland is only ~160 miles, so they shouldn't get a team either.

Apples and oranges.

Seattle is a legacy franchise, and Portland/Seattle are technically in different states. They don't have the fan/business overlap that Orlando/Tampa do.

Seattle is also a much wealthier area, the GDP of the metro area is much larger than Tampa's.

Goalpost moving at its finest ladies and gents.

Clearly the NBA thought there was something to Tampa. They could have put them in Jacksonville if they specifically wanted the Raps to spend the year in Florida or some reason. They picked Tampa as a try out.

Ask yourself a very simple question.

Why does the NBA, a multi-billion dollar entity with countless resources to assess the best economic moves for it's business, want to put a team in Seattle with Tampa apparently nowhere on the radar?

For the exact same reasons I'm telling you.

[Ducklett]

Apples and oranges.

Seattle is a legacy franchise, and Portland/Seattle are technically in different states. They don't have the fan/business overlap that Orlando/Tampa do.

Seattle is also a much wealthier area, the GDP of the metro area is much larger than Tampa's.

Goalpost moving at its finest ladies and gents.

Clearly the NBA thought there was something to Tampa. They could have put them in Jacksonville if they specifically wanted the Raps to spend the year in Florida or some reason. They picked Tampa as a try out.

Ask yourself a very simple question.

Why does the NBA, a multi-billion dollar entity with countless resources to assess the best economic moves for it's business, want to put a team in Seattle with Tampa apparently nowhere on the radar?

For the exact same reasons I'm telling you.

I am not the one saying that Tampa is better than Seattle. You are arguing with no one.

[HOPPZ]

I think Tampa has a chance. They tried it with the Raptors and the city had NFL and NHL championships (GO BUCS) in the last year, have the chance at repeating (GO LIGHTNING) and the Rays are the best team in baseball after making the World Series last year.

It is the second biggest US market after Seattle without an NBA team. Orlando (who has the Magic) has roughly the same exact market size (over 3 million each), so they won't need each other to make the team work.

Strike while the iron is hot.

Tampa will not get a team as long as the Magic exist, they are far too close.

Tampa is not trying to lure an NBA team. The raptors weren't able to travel internationally due to Canadian travel restrictions. Florida really never closed. You saw Canadian mls teams do this also

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[HOPPZ]

I'm glad you said that. Seattle to Portland is only ~160 miles, so they shouldn't get a team either.

Apples and oranges.

Seattle is a legacy franchise, and Portland/Seattle are technically in different states. They don't have the fan/business overlap that Orlando/Tampa do.

Seattle is also a much wealthier area, the GDP of the metro area is much larger than Tampa's.

Goalpost moving at its finest ladies and gents.

Clearly the NBA thought there was something to Tampa. They could have put them in Jacksonville if they specifically wanted the Raps to spend the year in Florida or some reason. They picked Tampa as a try out.

They played in an NHL venue. What indoor professional venue do you recommend in JAX?

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[HOPPZ]

To those recommending Mexico city, remember they are getting their G League team next season.

I think this is the best way to test the potential of a new nba market.


http://capitanes.mx/

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[brianmc]

To those recommending Mexico city, remember they are getting their G League team next season.

I think this is the best way to test the potential of a new nba market.


http://capitanes.mx/

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NBAPA would never allow it. Who is going to want to live in Mexico City?

[FreeThrowLine]

Instead of adding 2 teams they should be reducing them, spread the talent around

There’s no need for LA to have 2 teams, so you can start there and you may as well get rid of the Wolves

Take the players from the Clippers & Wolves and have a draft

[Jabroni Lames]

I'm glad you said that. Seattle to Portland is only ~160 miles, so they shouldn't get a team either.

Apples and oranges.

Seattle is a legacy franchise, and Portland/Seattle are technically in different states. They don't have the fan/business overlap that Orlando/Tampa do.

Seattle is also a much wealthier area, the GDP of the metro area is much larger than Tampa's.

Goalpost moving at its finest ladies and gents.

Clearly the NBA thought there was something to Tampa. They could have put them in Jacksonville if they specifically wanted the Raps to spend the year in Florida or some reason. They picked Tampa as a try out.

Raptors players chose Tampa... not the NBA. Mainly because of the weather, ironically. There’s lots of articles on that. They regretted that decision, by the end of it. Tampa fans booed them and cheered for the visiting team almost every night. Lol.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/2020/11/21/how-the-toronto-raptors-landed-in-tampa/

[Promezclan]

Bro... only two markets in the US have more than 11 million people. What are you talking about?

Markets are not defined by metro areas.

By who exactly?

By the half of the country that doesn't live in an NBA "metro area," as arbitrarily defined, yet still has a local team. Are there currently zero Magic or Heat fans in Tampa? Hell, I'm from Palo Alto, which is the San Jose metro area - I apparently have no team. But instead of feeling sorry for myself about US census decisions, I thought, "What the hell? It's only a 35 minute drive to the stadium, I can root for the Warriors and maybe people won't realize I'm an outsider."

[SNPA]

Some of ya’ll be romanticizing and others over thinking. Expansion is because of COVID losses. The teams will go to the highest bidders.

Sure, once they get to the margins some other factors will kick in but Seattle or Vegas or anyone else isn’t getting gifted a team unless they are offering up as much as other cities and have top line facilities, ideally paid for with some tax money (NBA wants to keep that model). Distance to other teams will only matter to the owner of that team (or another owner who sees it might happen to them soon).

Money. That’s what 95% of it’s about.

I’m a Kings fan. You should listen. I know what this is about. I lived it for years.

[geminiz]

Markets are not defined by metro areas.

By who exactly?

By the half of the country that doesn't live in an NBA "metro area," as arbitrarily defined, yet still has a local team. Are there currently zero Magic or Heat fans in Tampa? Hell, I'm from Palo Alto, which is the San Jose metro area - I apparently have no team. But instead of feeling sorry for myself about US census decisions, I thought, "What the hell? It's only a 35 minute drive to the stadium, I can root for the Warriors and maybe people won't realize I'm an outsider."

I get what ur trying to argue, but Palo Alto and Warrior is a bad example. Warrior is THE Bay area team, and Palo Alto is part of the bay area. A better analogy would be Monterey/Carmel.

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[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Markets are not defined by metro areas.

By who exactly?

By the half of the country that doesn't live in an NBA "metro area," as arbitrarily defined, yet still has a local team. Are there currently zero Magic or Heat fans in Tampa? Hell, I'm from Palo Alto, which is the San Jose metro area - I apparently have no team. But instead of feeling sorry for myself about US census decisions, I thought, "What the hell? It's only a 35 minute drive to the stadium, I can root for the Warriors and maybe people won't realize I'm an outsider."

Palo Alto is to SF as Seattle is to Portland is a laughable comparison.

[SNPA]

By who exactly?

By the half of the country that doesn't live in an NBA "metro area," as arbitrarily defined, yet still has a local team. Are there currently zero Magic or Heat fans in Tampa? Hell, I'm from Palo Alto, which is the San Jose metro area - I apparently have no team. But instead of feeling sorry for myself about US census decisions, I thought, "What the hell? It's only a 35 minute drive to the stadium, I can root for the Warriors and maybe people won't realize I'm an outsider."

I get what ur trying to argue, but Palo Alto and Warrior is a bad example. Warrior is THE Bay area team, and Palo Alto is part of the bay area. A better analogy would be Monterey/Carmel.

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Bay Area is big enough to have two teams. Don’t count out San Jose. Warriors will fight it, but other owners won’t care.

[Godymas]

pretty shocked to see Virginia Beach mentioned in OP. The entire statistical area is about 1.7 million people, it is the largest place outside of DC in the state of VA but does it really warrant a franchise?

I mean don't get me wrong, if they started a franchise for that area, you'd get the entire Hampton Roads area and Richmond on board which would combine for a total of at least 3 million potential fans. Some parts of NC would also be on board. You'd also get celebrity support from the hip-hop community, Pharrell Williams, Pusha T, Timbaland, Missy Elliott. The area has produced some notable basketball players, two of the most notable being Allen Iverson and Moses Malone. The state of VA in general has produced many HoFers due to Oak Hill Academy.

Tons of great basketball schools aren't too far. Virginia and VTech are regulars at the NCAA, Virginia won in 2019. VCU and George Mason have made historical runs into the tournment. You still have other schools with programs that show up once in a while, JMU, William and Mary, Virginia State, ODU, etc.

Not to mention the area isn't too far from Duke and UNC and could be appealing to talents that don't want to move too far to play in the league.

I'd love to see a VA Beach or Norfolk franchise but it's unlikely to really happen. There are bigger cities without one and it would also hurt the Wizards since basically anyone that lives there has no choice but to be a fan of the DC teams.

[SkyHookFTW]

Kansas City or St Louis, leaning toward St Louis (because no NFL, NBA can become the main thing along with baseball).

Like SoCal needs any more teams.

In St. Louis, the Cardinals are king, and if the NFL couldn't survive in St. Louis, I doubt the NBA will...which is weird since the NHL is still there.

[SNPA]

pretty shocked to see Virginia Beach mentioned in OP. The entire statistical area is about 1.7 million people, it is the largest place outside of DC in the state of VA but does it really warrant a franchise?

I mean don't get me wrong, if they started a franchise for that area, you'd get the entire Hampton Roads area and Richmond on board which would combine for a total of at least 3 million potential fans. Some parts of NC would also be on board. You'd also get celebrity support from the hip-hop community, Pharrell Williams, Pusha T, Timbaland, Missy Elliott. The area has produced some notable basketball players, two of the most notable being Allen Iverson and Moses Malone. The state of VA in general has produced many HoFers due to Oak Hill Academy.

Tons of great basketball schools aren't too far. Virginia and VTech are regulars at the NCAA, Virginia won in 2019. VCU and George Mason have made historical runs into the tournment. You still have other schools with programs that show up once in a while, JMU, William and Mary, Virginia State, ODU, etc.

Not to mention the area isn't too far from Duke and UNC and could be appealing to talents that don't want to move too far to play in the league.

I'd love to see a VA Beach or Norfolk franchise but it's unlikely to really happen. There are bigger cities without one and it would also hurt the Wizards since basically anyone that lives there has no choice but to be a fan of the DC teams.

They tried to move the Kings to VB.

They failed.

Money.

They tried to move the Kings to LA, as a third team.

They tried to move the Kings to Seattle.

Failed and failed.

Why?

Money. Sac’s mayor Burkle bombed them. Google it.

The Kings are the oldest operating professional basketball franchise in the world. And the NBA was happy to eliminate them over money.

Loyalty got nothing to do with it.

Let’s be clear, relocation and expansion is about money.