Re: NBA Expansion
Posted: Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:09 pm
Seattle and Las Vegas
Sports is our Business
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https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1578248
Kalamazoo317 wrote:What's the argument for Minnesota moving to the east over Memphis?
LakerLegend wrote:Chinook wrote:LakerLegend wrote:
Show me yours.
East A -- Boston, Toronto, New York, Brooklyn
East B -- Philadelphia, Indiana, Cleveland, Washington
East C -- Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando Miami
East D -- Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit
West A -- Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, SF
West B -- LAC, LAL, Phoenix, Las Vegas
West C -- Utah, Denver, OKC, Dallas
West D -- Memphis, Houston, New Orleans, SA
You can switch a couple of teams here or there, but this avoids those wonky divisions where teams aren't with clubs right by them in order to be with others half-way across the country. It's not ideal -- frankly it's a bad idea to put more teams out west given the reality of population dynamics in the near future -- but it works.
Mine is based on keeping the California and Texas teams together.
I also tried splitting the CA teams between North and South but that didn't work.
Chinook wrote:Kalamazoo317 wrote:What's the argument for Minnesota moving to the east over Memphis?
It's actually near the teams in the East.
Kalamazoo317 wrote:Chinook wrote:Kalamazoo317 wrote:What's the argument for Minnesota moving to the east over Memphis?
It's actually near the teams in the East.
Pretty negligable differences, IMO
Minneapolis to:
Milwaukee 4 hours 45
Chicago 6 hours
Detroit 9 hours 45
Memphis to:
Atlanta 5 hours 30
Indianapolis 6 hours 45
Chicago 7 hours 45
Charlotte 9 hours
wegotthabeet wrote:LakerLegend wrote:Chinook wrote:
East A -- Boston, Toronto, New York, Brooklyn
East B -- Philadelphia, Indiana, Cleveland, Washington
East C -- Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando Miami
East D -- Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit
West A -- Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, SF
West B -- LAC, LAL, Phoenix, Las Vegas
West C -- Utah, Denver, OKC, Dallas
West D -- Memphis, Houston, New Orleans, SA
You can switch a couple of teams here or there, but this avoids those wonky divisions where teams aren't with clubs right by them in order to be with others half-way across the country. It's not ideal -- frankly it's a bad idea to put more teams out west given the reality of population dynamics in the near future -- but it works.
Mine is based on keeping the California and Texas teams together.
I also tried splitting the CA teams between North and South but that didn't work.
why 8 divisions instead of 4? the 4 team divisions (with a couple of exceptions) are always awkward.
Minnesota moves to the eastern conference (north division)
NORTH
Boston
Toronto
Minnesota
Milwaukee
Chicago
Detroit
Indiana
Cleveland
EAST
New York
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Washington
Charlotte
Atlanta
Orlando
Miami
CENTRAL
Dallas
Memphis
Houston
New Orleans
SA
Utah
Denver
OKC
WEST
Seattle
Portland
Sacramento
SF
LAC
LAL
Phoenix
Las Vegas
SNPA wrote:wegotthabeet wrote:LakerLegend wrote:
Mine is based on keeping the California and Texas teams together.
I also tried splitting the CA teams between North and South but that didn't work.
why 8 divisions instead of 4? the 4 team divisions (with a couple of exceptions) are always awkward.
Minnesota moves to the eastern conference (north division)
NORTH
Boston
Toronto
Minnesota
Milwaukee
Chicago
Detroit
Indiana
Cleveland
EAST
New York
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Washington
Charlotte
Atlanta
Orlando
Miami
CENTRAL
Dallas
Memphis
Houston
New Orleans
SA
Utah
Denver
OKC
WEST
Seattle
Portland
Sacramento
SF
LAC
LAL
Phoenix
Las Vegas
This makes the most sense if the teams go to those cities, which I’m not convinced of. My experience with the Kings relocation sagas (yes, plural) is that fans and owners think about this very differently. The owners will be all about the money. Seattle and Vegas will get teams only if it makes the most money and for no other reason.
wegotthabeet wrote:SNPA wrote:wegotthabeet wrote:
why 8 divisions instead of 4? the 4 team divisions (with a couple of exceptions) are always awkward.
Minnesota moves to the eastern conference (north division)
NORTH
Boston
Toronto
Minnesota
Milwaukee
Chicago
Detroit
Indiana
Cleveland
EAST
New York
Brooklyn
Philadelphia
Washington
Charlotte
Atlanta
Orlando
Miami
CENTRAL
Dallas
Memphis
Houston
New Orleans
SA
Utah
Denver
OKC
WEST
Seattle
Portland
Sacramento
SF
LAC
LAL
Phoenix
Las Vegas
This makes the most sense if the teams go to those cities, which I’m not convinced of. My experience with the Kings relocation sagas (yes, plural) is that fans and owners think about this very differently. The owners will be all about the money. Seattle and Vegas will get teams only if it makes the most money and for no other reason.
what markets could make more?
SNPA wrote:wegotthabeet wrote:SNPA wrote:This makes the most sense if the teams go to those cities, which I’m not convinced of. My experience with the Kings relocation sagas (yes, plural) is that fans and owners think about this very differently. The owners will be all about the money. Seattle and Vegas will get teams only if it makes the most money and for no other reason.
what markets could make more?
All it takes is a Billionaire or group of them, in a viable market, to throw down more than Seattle or Vegas.
Seattle offers 2 billion buy in. San Jose offers 4 billion. Guess what Warriors and Seattle, you’re out voted. Welcome the SJ Tech Nerds to the league.
Kalamazoo317 wrote:Chinook wrote:Kalamazoo317 wrote:What's the argument for Minnesota moving to the east over Memphis?
It's actually near the teams in the East.
Pretty negligable differences, IMO
Minneapolis to:
Milwaukee 4 hours 45
Chicago 6 hours
Detroit 9 hours 45
Memphis to:
Atlanta 5 hours 30
Indianapolis 6 hours 45
Chicago 7 hours 45
Charlotte 9 hours
LakerLegend wrote:SNPA wrote:wegotthabeet wrote:
what markets could make more?
All it takes is a Billionaire or group of them, in a viable market, to throw down more than Seattle or Vegas.
Seattle offers 2 billion buy in. San Jose offers 4 billion. Guess what Warriors and Seattle, you’re out voted. Welcome the SJ Tech Nerds to the league.
No one is going to make a blowout offer that is way more than a fair franchise valuation, offers are all going to be in the same ballparks in all likelihood.
These guys didn't get rich by throwing money away.
Special_Puppy wrote:Seattle and Tampa
shrink wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:Seattle and Tampa
Tampa doesn’t get talked about, but they are a possibility.
The NBA is focused on their longterm profits, and that means generating fans by being seen in the biggest markets. Seattle-Tacoma and Tampa-St Pete are the only two Top 20 Markets that don’t have an NBA team. I doubt that San Jose would get a team regardless of the upfront payment, since it’s already considered part of the SF-Oakland market.
Seattle I think is a lock, particularly since the NBA community wants one there after they lose their franchise. But I think Vegas still gets the nod over Tampa, because of the uniqueness of Vegas. While it’s only the 40th biggest market, other pro sports team have flourished there because of all the tourism and entertainment. I will say that as soon as they have a team, I’ll fly out to Vegas to see my home team play. Now that the NBA has finally embraced gambling, the free-spending tourists in Vegas will make it one of the best markets in the NBA.
PlatinumState wrote:shrink wrote:Special_Puppy wrote:Seattle and Tampa
Tampa doesn’t get talked about, but they are a possibility.
The NBA is focused on their longterm profits, and that means generating fans by being seen in the biggest markets. Seattle-Tacoma and Tampa-St Pete are the only two Top 20 Markets that don’t have an NBA team. I doubt that San Jose would get a team regardless of the upfront payment, since it’s already considered part of the SF-Oakland market.
Seattle I think is a lock, particularly since the NBA community wants one there after they lose their franchise. But I think Vegas still gets the nod over Tampa, because of the uniqueness of Vegas. While it’s only the 40th biggest market, other pro sports team have flourished there because of all the tourism and entertainment. I will say that as soon as they have a team, I’ll fly out to Vegas to see my home team play. Now that the NBA has finally embraced gambling, the free-spending tourists in Vegas will make it one of the best markets in the NBA.
Why Tampa and not Jacksonville? More than double the the population
LakerLegend wrote:PlatinumState wrote:shrink wrote:Tampa doesn’t get talked about, but they are a possibility.
The NBA is focused on their longterm profits, and that means generating fans by being seen in the biggest markets. Seattle-Tacoma and Tampa-St Pete are the only two Top 20 Markets that don’t have an NBA team. I doubt that San Jose would get a team regardless of the upfront payment, since it’s already considered part of the SF-Oakland market.
Seattle I think is a lock, particularly since the NBA community wants one there after they lose their franchise. But I think Vegas still gets the nod over Tampa, because of the uniqueness of Vegas. While it’s only the 40th biggest market, other pro sports team have flourished there because of all the tourism and entertainment. I will say that as soon as they have a team, I’ll fly out to Vegas to see my home team play. Now that the NBA has finally embraced gambling, the free-spending tourists in Vegas will make it one of the best markets in the NBA.
Why Tampa and not Jacksonville? More than double the the population
Tampa is too close to Orlando, there’s no point in putting a team there.
shrink wrote:LakerLegend wrote:PlatinumState wrote:
Why Tampa and not Jacksonville? More than double the the population
Tampa is too close to Orlando, there’s no point in putting a team there.
I assume the NBA uses DMA’s (which includes nearby suburbs and exburbs), and not the strict population of the individual city.
For example, Tampa-St Pete-Sarasota is the #13 DMA in the US (Seattle is #12). Jacksonville is #41. That’s a better market.
LakerLegend wrote:shrink wrote:LakerLegend wrote:Tampa is too close to Orlando, there’s no point in putting a team there.
I assume the NBA uses DMA’s (which includes nearby suburbs and exburbs), and not the strict population of the individual city.
For example, Tampa-St Pete-Sarasota is the #13 DMA in the US (Seattle is #12). Jacksonville is #41. That’s a better market.
Than Seattle? Absolutely not.
Jacksonville I don't care about. We don't need 3 teams in Florida.
There's no point in putting a team in Tampa with the Magic nearby.
One_and_Done wrote:Seattle isn't even my top choice, they had their chance to keep their team. That said, I'm broadly in favour of more teams. Let's add 4 more. Despite what ppl will say, there's more than enough talent. Mexico next. I'd love to see Vancouver, Seattle and Kentucky too. Vegaa is fine also. Plus let's add an extra team in NY and LA. There's more than enough money to support it.