Penny Hardaway = HOFer?

durantbird · Post #1 » by **durantbird** » Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:31 am

Do you think Penny has a strong case for Hall of Fame? Very high peak but short one, though also had playoff success at the time and was one of the best offensive point guards of all time.

Post #2 » by **tsherkin** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:01 am

He has three relevant full seasons in his entire career and three postseason runs of consequence. That... shouldn't be in the Hall.

FuShengTHEGreat · Post #3 » by **FuShengTHEGreat** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:53 am

durantbird wrote:Do you think Penny has a strong case for Hall of Fame? Very high peak but short one, though also had playoff success at the time and was one of the best offensive point guards of all time.

The "next Magic Johnson" that just barely managed to preceed his entry to the NBA Steve Smith, had most of his career overlap with Pennys and had a much longer and productive career and hasn't made it. So no.

Injuries suck.

picko · Post #4 » by **picko** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:28 am

durantbird wrote:Do you think Penny has a strong case for Hall of Fame? Very high peak but short one, though also had playoff success at the time and was one of the best offensive point guards of all time.

Nobody thinks that Penny has a strong case for Hall of Fame.

He played two excellent seasons, one very good season and make two all-NBA first teams. That's a period of 218 games and that is the extent of his resume.

MiamiBulls · Post #5 » by **MiamiBulls** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:45 am

If Penny Hardaway had a strong case he would have been in by now. He's been eligible for the Basketball HOF for the last 10 years.

Basketball HOF is very Accolades and Achievement driven. Penny did not have an historically great collegiate career. Even though he has 4x All Star Selections & 3x All NBA Selections he also has 0x MVP, 0x FMVP, 0x NBA Championship, 0x All Defensive Selections, 0x DPOYs.

There isn't a single player with that resume or lack thereof that's in the Basketball HOF. Shawn Kemp is a 6x All Star & 3x All NBA and has been eligible for the HOF for the last 15 years, hasn't even come close to staying on the ballot through the preliminary process.

Post #6 » by **Fadeaway_J** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:17 pm

FuShengTHEGreat wrote:
durantbird wrote:Do you think Penny has a strong case for Hall of Fame? Very high peak but short one, though also had playoff success at the time and was one of the best offensive point guards of all time.

The "next Magic Johnson" that just barely managed to preceed his entry to the NBA Steve Smith, had most of his career overlap with Pennys and had a much longer and productive career and hasn't made it. So no.

Injuries suck.

Is this Grant Hill? Because he did make it. Not that I disagree on Penny though.

MiamiBulls · Post #7 » by **MiamiBulls** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:57 pm

Fadeaway_J wrote:
FuShengTHEGreat wrote:
durantbird wrote:Do you think Penny has a strong case for Hall of Fame? Very high peak but short one, though also had playoff success at the time and was one of the best offensive point guards of all time.

The "next Magic Johnson" that just barely managed to preceed his entry to the NBA Steve Smith, had most of his career overlap with Pennys and had a much longer and productive career and hasn't made it. So no.

Injuries suck.

Is this Grant Hill?

Nope!

Grant Hill: 7x All Star, 5x All NBA
Luka Doncic: 5x All Star, soon-to-be 5x All NBA

If Luka retired after this season, would you question his candidacy for the Basketball HOF?

Being 5x All Pro pretty much guarantees a player an induction in the basketball HOF,

There isn't a single player with 5 All NBA Selections+5 All Star Selections who's been eligible for more than 5 years that's not in the Basketball Hall of Fame i.e. Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Chris Webber.

D.Brasco · Post #8 » by **D.Brasco** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:49 pm

Hypothetically, if the rest of his resume was the same but he had won a ring in '95, would he have an argument?

durantbird · Post #9 » by **durantbird** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:55 pm

Is his career that far from Bill Walton who is a hall of famer? Also, the hall should tell the story of basketball, which seems incomplete without Penny

Post #10 » by **Fadeaway_J** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:11 pm

durantbird wrote:Is his career that far from Bill Walton who is a hall of famer? Also, the hall should tell the story of basketball, which seems incomplete without Penny

In addition to peaking higher, Walton led his team to a championship and also had an amazing college career. Penny doesn't have those additional factors going for him.

picko · Post #11 » by **picko** » Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:48 pm

D.Brasco wrote:Hypothetically, if the rest of his resume was the same but he had won a ring in '95, would he have an argument?

No. He would still have a relevant career that spanned 218 games.

NW BBALL · Post #12 » by **NW BBALL** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:46 am

Walton is considered one of the greatest college basketball players of all time and led one of coach Wooden’s most dominants teams. Then he came into the NBA and won two titles (one as the man), FMVP, MVP, and 6th of the year despite an injury plagued career.

Post #13 » by **penbeast0** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:23 am

If Penny hadn't had the publicity and the Lil Penny commercials, this wouldn't be an issue. His basketball resume probably isn't enough but he has a nice mythology built around himself. It's worked for others like Connie Hawkins.

gavran · Post #14 » by **gavran** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:24 pm

He is in the HoF of my heart.

OdomFan · Post #15 » by **OdomFan** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:52 pm

Penny was drafted top 3 in 1993 for a reason. He had a great college career. When you combine the great things Penny did in the NCAA along with his time with the Orlando Magic in the NBA, and his part in winning the 1996 Olympic Gold Medal? it sounds like someone who belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame to me. His injuries shortened what could have been an even greater career, but he still did a lot.

Owly · Post #16 » by **Owly** » Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:06 pm

He probably wouldn't be in the Hall in my head ... I guess.

But that means very little because that's my own criteria and I'm
1) probably not bending enough towards actual criteria
2) setting a higher bar in my head than the actual hall does.

Even setting aside pioneers, international, ABA and NCAA driven (or at least partially driven) guys, setting aside 60s Celtic lesser pieces and similar ...

I mean maybe you can squint and say King had more solid years (and maybe Bernie and Ernie means something to NCAA guys, I'm not a follower of NCAA - and people don't care about the skeletons), Hill as has been noted had a little longer and tagged on role-player years, Yao has China and more time at a high level, Connie has injustice ...

... you can say (RS), peaking at the same time, Reference box-aggregates like Terrell Brandon a little better ...

But I they do value peaks. And they do value narrative. And for a moment Orlando was the young, fun team and Penny and Shaq were the new Magic and Kareem. And Penny has strong playoff performances. And in a Hall where Dino Radja and Charlie Scott and the 70s shooting guards and Bill Bradley and Gus Johnson and all the 60s Celtics ... put it this way, if this list https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/hof.html cut off roughly after guys around say 115 Win Shares (roughly ... Mikan would be in, Baylor would be etc) it would be easier to say Hardaway doesn't belong with these guys.

He's quite high on the Reference HoF probability list among guys that aren't in. Of those left Foust has probably missed the boat, others haven't waited long enough and/or feel more "hall of very good" (as much as I dislike that distinction) [Marion] or accumulation [Rondo] or somewhere in between [Joe Johnson] ...

The Hall wants to put in a bunch of players each year. It's probably mostly tapped the well for euro-crossovers and ABA guys though it depends on your angle ... . If Cooper and Barnett are getting in this year ... as I say, he might not hit my mental bar for a HoF career but based on the real Hall would I be surprised to see Penny inducted in a couple of years ... no.

If he had a "strong" case he'd presumably be in by now as others have stated.