Is Kobe a top 15 all-time player?

[One_and_Done]

He's easily top ten TBH.

Top 15 peak OAT/best player in the world st his best.

Insane longevity.

Best postseason/player on the best postseason team of all-time/clear 1a/1b on a top five team in history.

Far and away the best player on a top ten all-time team (09 Lakers)

GOAT level offensive impact at his offensive peak

Legit All-Defensive level guard for a fair amount of seasons and one of the best perimeter defenders in the league at his defensive peak (01)

The most clutch player of the 2000's or at least in the argument

Elite impact

Far and away the best player on teams that made three straight Finals appearances won back-to-back titles

Five titles and seven Finals appearances while playing better playoff comp than any player in modern history

More All-NBA selections than all but one player in history

More All-NBA 1st team selections than all but player one player in history

Top ten offensive player OAT by peak and career

Etc, etc

Insane player.

Some of these metrics are poor measures of impact imo, and/or dubious. The 2009 Lakers certainly weren't an all-time team for eg. I can't see any case for top 10. I'm not even sure he's the 10th best player since he was drafted.

[SpreeS]

Kobe/West/Oscar/Curry would be crazy debate for me.

[MyUniBroDavis]

How are there 90 votes when there are like 25 users on this forum

[One_and_Done]

I used the magic word

[Salieri]

How are there 90 votes when there are like 25 users on this forum

Some of us lurk and read, but very rarely post.

[MyUniBroDavis]

How are there 90 votes when there are like 25 users on this forum

Some of us lurk and read, but very rarely post.

The PC board has really become a comedy with some of the takes nowadays rip

[One_and_Done]

How are there 90 votes when there are like 25 users on this forum

Some of us lurk and read, but very rarely post.

The PC board has really become a comedy with some of the takes nowadays rip

I think it's a fair take tbh.

[ardee]

There are posters in here, who frankly, shouldn't be allowed to post in threads about Kobe, just like trolls in the LeBron thread were told to lay off. It's the real lack of decency for me.

[The Explorer]

Not only is he top 15 but he's in the top 7 for me.

[EmpireFalls]

Yes and he’s borderline top 10.

[Joao Saraiva]

Still top 10 for me.

And no, KD is not even close. Kobe proved to be one of the best players in the NBA for long enough. He worked as a 2nd option, and as a 1a and 1b option. He worked as the leader to win b2b championships.

He was very consistent, he didn't drop production often in the playoffs.

[Jaivl]

Is Bird?

[Fundamentals21]

He's top 10ish for me as well.... a consistent, successful career that became tough to question.

[tsherkin]

Somewhere in that 12-15 range seems pretty appropriate to me.

[ty 4191]

Is Bird?

Kobe's all time rankings:

Win Shares Per 48: 55th all time
Total Win Shares: 15th

Box Plus Minus: 31st all time

Player Efficiency Rating: 25th all time

Value Over Replacement Player: 13th all time

But, for someone that shot/scored as much as Kobe? This is CRUCIAL:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cZKyz688S74yyo8Dy4T5vuAkIXZggKJK6QdiUnQqSx8/edit#gid=174375588

Kobe is 50th all time in True Shooting Added.

Kobe is 78th all time in TS Added Per 82 Games.

I get it, he was handsome, a great interview, intelligent, fearless. I get he died tragically and horrifically, in fact...I was the first person to notify everyone I know about it.

But..the bottom line is..Kobe is just NOT a top 10 or even top 15 player all time.

[web123888]

Pretty indisputably in most circles and more commonly in the top 10, though I certainly can see a possible argument for outside top 10.

The general NBA community and its rankings are usually more important than this forum’s rankings.

[penbeast0]

I think I'm more kind towards Kobe the player than I am to some who just sort of gloss over his negatives as a player. It's a really dishonest form of evaluation imo when people only talk about his strengths and don't want to see his limitations/weaknesses. Even statistically speaking his case for top 10 isn't that strong. His longevity is fairly good but it's really the rings and his place as a Laker icon that has gotten him top 10 or even top 5 talk over the years imo. If he'd been a career Nugget or Hawk who won 1 ring it'd be easier for many people to accept him being in the 15-20 range. I have him at about 15 but anywhere from 13-18 seems acceptable to me.

Without the rings, particularly the Gasol/Odom titles, I wouldn't have him top 30. I had to reevaluate his impact after 2009 and 2010. 1 ring and played in Atlanta with the resulting much lower publicity level, he's probably 30-50.

[Matt15]

Top 10 all-time for me, lowest I can reasonably see him is 15.

[penbeast0]

....

The general NBA community and its rankings are usually more important than this forum’s rankings.

Blasphemy!

[tsherkin]

....

The general NBA community and its rankings are usually more important than this forum’s rankings.

Blasphemy!

More important to what?