Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP

[parsnips33]

He's playing it good enough to win the championship, that's what matters the most. We have so called a "great defender" in Embiid. Come to play off he's the liability on the both ends of the floor.

They both kinda have that same weakness against deep pull up shooters - Embiid a far more effective rim deterrent I think but Jokic has great hands/feet/instincts that make him maybe a bit less vulnerable when pulled out of the paint.

One huge advantage that Jokic has over Embiid that’s generally unsaid is his motor. I’ve seen Embiid worn out in second halves his entire career. Jokic often looked like the freshest guy on the floor during the end of playoff games last year.

Great point - also Jokic's conditioning is elite, especially for a guy who doesn't look like much of an athlete

[ty 4191]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

[ty 4191]

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[Doctor MJ]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

I find myself looking at that stat. I'm so glad we've gotten to see the Big Beethoven.

[rk2023]

Filtering out low leverage minutes, in the ‘23 and ‘24 regular season - Denver has a 126.2 ORTG with Jokic on.

In the ‘23 playoffs, 122.3 (that too, whilst facing three far from easy defensive matchups). I don’t like using recency bias to make proclamations, but I think Jokic could be the best offensive player of all time and have that be realized by more and more people moving forward. Crazy stuff.

[Fadeaway_J]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

I find myself looking at that stat. I'm so glad we've gotten to see the Big Beethoven.

ESPN needs to pull this up whenever someone tries to pull the "I don't know, Bill Walton has to be in the conversation" manoeuvre.

[tsherkin]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

I find myself looking at that stat. I'm so glad we've gotten to see the Big Beethoven.

He's absurd in all the best ways.

[frica]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html

With the way things are going Jokic has a good case to chance to move to #12 this year.

[TroubleS0me]

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[Djoker]

Jokic casually drops a 36/21/11 game...

[Clyde Frazier]

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That lefty jumper was way too fluid

[Peregrine01]

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That lefty jumper was way too fluid

I think he has the best dexterity and coordination of any player I’ve seen which is crazy to think about since he’s 7’. This isn’t something you can just work at, it’s god-given talent.

[TheGOATRises007]

Filtering out low leverage minutes, in the ‘23 and ‘24 regular season - Denver has a 126.2 ORTG with Jokic on.

In the ‘23 playoffs, 122.3 (that too, whilst facing three far from easy defensive matchups). I don’t like using recency bias to make proclamations, but I think Jokic could be the best offensive player of all time and have that be realized by more and more people moving forward. Crazy stuff.

He has absolutely no weakness offensively and he's a giant at 7ft+.

He's an offensive savant. It's a shame the NBA media barely covers him compared to other players. He deserves more recognition.

He's going to retire as one of the 5-10 best players of all-time if he avoids catastrophic injuries.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

I find myself looking at that stat. I'm so glad we've gotten to see the Big Beethoven.

I think a significant part of this is about him being a trendsetter who first has been used in such a pivotal (lol) way. Now that we have proof of comcept we'll see other guys approaching such numbers, already Sabonis and Sengun are iver 21% trending upwards (Domas over 30% as a King), I am sure we'll have many other guys used this way more. Even a mediocre passer like Joel has been over 22% recently and is at 29% this season, in a small sample.

[The-Power]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

I find myself looking at that stat. I'm so glad we've gotten to see the Big Beethoven.

I think a significant part of this is about him being a trendsetter who first has been used in such a pivotal (lol) way. Now that we have proof of comcept we'll see other guys approaching such numbers, already Sabonis and Sengun are iver 21% trending upwards (Domas over 30% as a King), I am sure we'll have many other guys used this way more. Even a mediocre passer like Joel has been over 22% recently and is at 29% this season, in a small sample.

That's a good point. What Jokic does is nothing short of incredible but it is also part of a broader development in the NBA (with some – but clearly far from all – of the credit going to him as a trendsetter). To throw another name out there, Zach Collins is at 17.8% for the three years with the Spurs – up from 7.1% for the three years with the Blazers. More and more big men that can pass are given opportunities to showcase their skills and the game becomes more enjoyable (imo) as a result.

[tsherkin]

I think a significant part of this is about him being a trendsetter who first has been used in such a pivotal (lol) way. Now that we have proof of comcept we'll see other guys approaching such numbers, already Sabonis and Sengun are iver 21% trending upwards (Domas over 30% as a King), I am sure we'll have many other guys used this way more. Even a mediocre passer like Joel has been over 22% recently and is at 29% this season, in a small sample.

Yeah but that's Jokic's career average, my dude.

He's working on his 4th season of 40%+ AST and rocked a 46.6% last year against 13.2% TOV and scoring 24.5 ppg.

Proof of concept is one thing, but Joker's separation from others is still quite significant regardless.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I think a significant part of this is about him being a trendsetter who first has been used in such a pivotal (lol) way. Now that we have proof of comcept we'll see other guys approaching such numbers, already Sabonis and Sengun are iver 21% trending upwards (Domas over 30% as a King), I am sure we'll have many other guys used this way more. Even a mediocre passer like Joel has been over 22% recently and is at 29% this season, in a small sample.

Yeah but that's Jokic's career average, my dude.

He's working on his 4th season of 40%+ AST and rocked a 46.6% last year against 13.2% TOV and scoring 24.5 ppg.

Proof of concept is one thing, but Joker's separation from others is still quite significant regardless.

I am not disputing that he might be the greatest passer (and offensive player overall) of all time, but those numbers are impacted massively by what I said.
Have Walton play today and he'd be in the 30s for sure, for his career.
We need context to properly appreciate what's going on, ass% is extremely dependent on how a guy is being used.

Kudos to both Jokic and Malone for opening a new path, though.

[Doctor MJ]

Hall of Fame Centers, Highest Career Assist %, Centers, since 1964-1965 (first year of tracking):

Jokic: 35.6%
Walton: 17.1%
Duncan: 16.7%
Divac: 16.0%
Chamberlain: 15.7%
Kareem: 14.6%^
Lanier: 14.4%
Sikma: 14.0%
Shaq: 13.9%
Cowens: 13.8%
Unseld: 13.5%
Robinson: 12.9%
Olajuwon: 12.1%

The separation here between Jokic and every other center in history is absolutely staggering.

I find myself looking at that stat. I'm so glad we've gotten to see the Big Beethoven.

I think a significant part of this is about him being a trendsetter who first has been used in such a pivotal (lol) way. Now that we have proof of comcept we'll see other guys approaching such numbers, already Sabonis and Sengun are iver 21% trending upwards (Domas over 30% as a King), I am sure we'll have many other guys used this way more. Even a mediocre passer like Joel has been over 22% recently and is at 29% this season, in a small sample.

This is quite true...of course the proof of concept is almost a century old, it was simply forgotten/dismissed.

Jokic is bringing sexy back.

[tsherkin]

Have Walton play today and he'd be in the 30s for sure, for his career.
We need context to properly appreciate what's going on, ass% is extremely dependent on how a guy is being used.

Kudos to both Jokic and Malone for opening a new path, though.

Sure, there are others who are going to close the separation as we continue to see what high-skill guys can do at height now that they don't just have to be lumbering stiffs beneath the rim, yeah. And yeah, we'll see people trying out different things.

But we didn't need AST% to trip out about Jokic, but if we're gonna use it, looking at these past couple of years will really reinforce the separation even as others start to develop when given the opportunity. 46.6% is pretty big for anyone, let alone a center.

EDIT: And the usual "blah blah blah, role-based stat, blah blah blah, opportunity, blah blah blah"

[ty 4191]

I think a significant part of this is about him being a trendsetter who first has been used in such a pivotal (lol) way. Now that we have proof of comcept we'll see other guys approaching such numbers, already Sabonis and Sengun are iver 21% trending upwards (Domas over 30% as a King), I am sure we'll have many other guys used this way more. Even a mediocre passer like Joel has been over 22% recently and is at 29% this season, in a small sample.

While you make a great point, I don't think any 7' Center anytime soon will be doing this (see below) for 260 games across the regular season plus playoffs, do you?



Jokic is more than DOUBLE #2 Embiid's assist percentage.

And, 250+ games is not a small sample size, at all.