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Fencer reregistered wrote:

ConstableGeneva wrote:Ainge should get a ring if we ever win the title with this group.



Our starting five has Danny's fingerprints all over them.

White: via Langford (drafted by DA) and Richardson via Hayward TPE (acquired by DA)
Holiday: via Brogdon via Nesmith (drafted by DA) via MEM 1st (acquired by DA)
Tatum: drafted by DA
Brown: drafted by DA
Porzingis: via Smart (drafted by DA)

The Jays? Of course.
Assets for 1-2 more of those guys? Sure. Smart and Timelord were well drafted.

All 5? That's stretching it. Brad traded away a lot of 1sts and swaps to put the current roster together. Nesmith and Langford added very little value into those transactions, if any.

One of my complaints during a couple of seasons in Danny's tenure was he failed to have mid-tier salaried players on the roster so when a star or even an upgrade became available, we'd have salary to match without sending out core players. So I have to give him credit for setting Brad up to make those trades later on. Without the Hayward TPE (which Ainge had to pay two 2nds for), Brad wouldn't be able to get Josh Richardson. The only one that Ainge had little to do with was Holiday. We got Brogdon by combining several salaries of players all signed/traded for by Brad except Nesmith, who was drafted by Ainge. Without Nesmith though, there would be no Brogdon or some core piece would have to go out.

I think it’s a stretch to give Ainge credit for Brogdon (via Nesmith) or White (via Langford). Both of those guys were busts who held little value in their trades. Brad got them primarily for giving up the future picks.

Any GM’s initial moves will have some tracings back to the previous regime. And don’t get me wrong, I’m on the side that Danny does deserve a lot of credit. But we don’t have to exaggerate. Having underperforming players under contract and not having traded away your future picks sets the next GM up to make trades but it’s a huge stretch to give “credit” to the old GM for that.

hugepatsfan wrote:I think it’s a stretch to give Ainge credit for Brogdon (via Nesmith) or White (via Langford). Both of those guys were busts who held little value in their trades. Brad got them primarily for giving up the future picks.

Any GM’s initial moves will have some tracings back to the previous regime. And don’t get me wrong, I’m on the side that Danny does deserve a lot of credit. But we don’t have to exaggerate. Having underperforming players under contract and not having traded away your future picks sets the next GM up to make trades but it’s a huge stretch to give “credit” to the old GM for that.

You don't think having the Hayward TPE helped in the acquisition of White? GM's job is to maximize all the tools available and keep the team's salary structure as flexible as possible. I even remember some were against having to pay picks for that TPE since it's "useless". It's fine criticizing Ainge for his inability to make smaller trades and build a proper bench during his last couple of years, but he did make it easier for Brad to acquire White later on by having that TPE available to him during the start of the 2021-22 season.

It's the same thing we're doing now. We're trying to anticipate some players to become available midseason, but we don't have any more salaries to put together to get back an impactful player. That's why some fans are suggesting using the Grant TPE now so the player acquired can be aggregated with end-of-bench players before the trade deadline.

ConstableGeneva wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:I think it’s a stretch to give Ainge credit for Brogdon (via Nesmith) or White (via Langford). Both of those guys were busts who held little value in their trades. Brad got them primarily for giving up the future picks.

Any GM’s initial moves will have some tracings back to the previous regime. And don’t get me wrong, I’m on the side that Danny does deserve a lot of credit. But we don’t have to exaggerate. Having underperforming players under contract and not having traded away your future picks sets the next GM up to make trades but it’s a huge stretch to give “credit” to the old GM for that.

You don't think having the Hayward TPE helped in the acquisition of White? GM's job is to maximize all the tools available and keep the team's salary structure as flexible as possible. I even remember some were against having to pay picks for that TPE since it's "useless". It's fine criticizing Ainge for his inability to make smaller trades and build a proper bench during his last couple of years, but he did make it easier for Brad to acquire White later on by having that TPE available to him during the start of the 2021-22 season.

It's the same thing we're doing now. We're trying to anticipate some players to become available midseason, but we don't have any more salaries to put together to get back an impactful player. That's why some fans are suggesting using the Grant TPE now so the player acquired before the trade deadline can be aggregated with end-of-bench players.

Yes, of course having that TPE helped. I just think it’s a stretch to tie all the moves back to the old GM. Anytime a new GM takes over the team they’re going to have players under contract, future picks to trade and possibly some TPEs.

A big salary player walked out the door and Danny gave 2nds for a TPE. That’s not ground breaking. Everyone does that. Brad did it himself the next year with Fournier. And if he wanted to, he could have done the White deal using that rather than Richardson/Langford. He chose to preserve the Fournier TPE for the off-season but it ended up going expired because they added Brogdon who was priced above it and had to use the matching salary. It would have fit White if he needed to though.

And yeah, you could trace even the Fournier TPE to Ainge because he acquired him, but that starts to get silly to me. Anytime a new GM comes in there will be some pieces in place.

hugepatsfan wrote:

ConstableGeneva wrote:

hugepatsfan wrote:I think it’s a stretch to give Ainge credit for Brogdon (via Nesmith) or White (via Langford). Both of those guys were busts who held little value in their trades. Brad got them primarily for giving up the future picks.

Any GM’s initial moves will have some tracings back to the previous regime. And don’t get me wrong, I’m on the side that Danny does deserve a lot of credit. But we don’t have to exaggerate. Having underperforming players under contract and not having traded away your future picks sets the next GM up to make trades but it’s a huge stretch to give “credit” to the old GM for that.

You don't think having the Hayward TPE helped in the acquisition of White? GM's job is to maximize all the tools available and keep the team's salary structure as flexible as possible. I even remember some were against having to pay picks for that TPE since it's "useless". It's fine criticizing Ainge for his inability to make smaller trades and build a proper bench during his last couple of years, but he did make it easier for Brad to acquire White later on by having that TPE available to him during the start of the 2021-22 season.

It's the same thing we're doing now. We're trying to anticipate some players to become available midseason, but we don't have any more salaries to put together to get back an impactful player. That's why some fans are suggesting using the Grant TPE now so the player acquired before the trade deadline can be aggregated with end-of-bench players.

Yes, of course having that TPE helped. I just think it’s a stretch to tie all the moves back to the old GM. Anytime a new GM takes over the team they’re going to have players under contract, future picks to trade and possibly some TPEs.

A big salary player walked out the door and Danny gave 2nds for a TPE. That’s not ground breaking. Everyone does that. Brad did it himself the next year with Fournier. And if he wanted to, he could have done the White deal using that rather than Richardson/Langford. He chose to preserve the Fournier TPE for the off-season but it ended up going expired because they added Brogdon who was priced above it and had to use the matching salary. It would have fit White if he needed to though.

And yeah, you could trace even the Fournier TPE to Ainge because he acquired him, but that starts to get silly to me. Anytime a new GM comes in there will be some pieces in place.

Indeed, it's a CBA requirement to spend a lot of money on salary. So either the outgoing GM leaves behind a lot of expiring deals -- cap room! -- or else there are contracts for trade ballast.

It's been a shorter time window so obviously makes it easier, but feels like the difference between the two is Brad has fewer mistakes on his record in the moves he's made. Add a few years to the situation and some current moves might look a lot different though so it's not something to put a huge amount of weight into.

Fencer reregistered wrote:

ConstableGeneva wrote:Ainge should get a ring if we ever win the title with this group.



Our starting five has Danny's fingerprints all over them.

White: via Langford (drafted by DA) and Richardson via Hayward TPE (acquired by DA)
Holiday: via Brogdon via Nesmith (drafted by DA) via MEM 1st (acquired by DA)
Tatum: drafted by DA
Brown: drafted by DA
Porzingis: via Smart (drafted by DA)

The Jays? Of course.
Assets for 1-2 more of those guys? Sure. Smart and Timelord were well drafted.

All 5? That's stretching it. Brad traded away a lot of 1sts and swaps to put the current roster together. Nesmith and Langford added very little value into those transactions, if any.

Sure, I suppose you could argue that Ainge didn't have as much to do with Holiday, White and Porzingis getting to Boston (obviously most if not all the credit for those 3 guys being here is Brad).

With that being said, the fact is the pillars of this team are still the Jays. Those 2 guys are still the foundation, the leaders. The 2 best players on a team that went to the finals, another team that came within 1 win of the NBA finals and another team that came within 2 wins of the NBA finals - all before either of them turned 27.

Both muli-time all-stars, both have made all-NBA. And 1 of them has made all-NBA 1st team in back to back years, before the age of 26.

Danny played a HUGE role in the Jays being on the team. He made the huge trade that got us the 3rd pick in the draft in back to back years. He scouted and he identified that they were the guys he wanted and he also made the trade to move down from 3 to 1 and still get Tatum. And he took JB 3rd pick, even though lots of "experts" thought he should go a little bit lower in the top 10 due to a meh freshman season in college. Danny saw something in both of them.

And he drafted Smart, who got us Porzingis.

Hal14 wrote:

Fencer reregistered wrote:

ConstableGeneva wrote:Ainge should get a ring if we ever win the title with this group.



Our starting five has Danny's fingerprints all over them.

White: via Langford (drafted by DA) and Richardson via Hayward TPE (acquired by DA)
Holiday: via Brogdon via Nesmith (drafted by DA) via MEM 1st (acquired by DA)
Tatum: drafted by DA
Brown: drafted by DA
Porzingis: via Smart (drafted by DA)

The Jays? Of course.
Assets for 1-2 more of those guys? Sure. Smart and Timelord were well drafted.

All 5? That's stretching it. Brad traded away a lot of 1sts and swaps to put the current roster together. Nesmith and Langford added very little value into those transactions, if any.

Sure, I suppose you could argue that Ainge didn't have as much to do with Holiday, White and Porzingis getting to Boston (obviously most if not all the credit for those 3 guys being here is Brad).

With that being said, the fact is the pillars of this team are still the Jays. Those 2 guys are still the foundation, the leaders. The 2 best players on a team that went to the finals, another team that came within 1 win of the NBA finals and another team that came within 2 wins of the NBA finals - all before either of them turned 27.

Both muli-time all-stars, both have made all-NBA. And 1 of them has made all-NBA 1st team in back to back years, before the age of 26.

Danny played a HUGE role in the Jays being on the team. He made the huge trade that got us the 3rd pick in the draft in back to back years. He scouted and he identified that they were the guys he wanted and he also made the trade to move down from 3 to 1 and still get Tatum. And he took JB 3rd pick, even though lots of "experts" thought he should go a little bit lower in the top 10 due to a meh freshman season in college. Danny saw something in both of them.

And he drafted Smart, who got us Porzingis.

Other thing that should get mentioned in this is Danny kept the profile of the club up. Ie, he didn't mega-stink tank for years to do what he did, and got the team back to being competitive after blowing it up extremely quickly.

Almost of all these guys (inc Brogs) have publicly stated part of how they ended up here was they wanted to come to Boston and their former teams were agreeable to that. Haven't heard it (or forgot if I did) with White, but it wouldn't surprise if that was the case with him as well.

UPDATED & CORRECTED

zoyathedestroya wrote:POBO Brad’s Offseason Moves:

OUT:
• Blake Griffin
• Marcus Smart
• Grant Williams
• Robert Williams
• Malcolm Brogdon
• Mike Muscala
• Danilo Gallinari
• Justin Champagnie
• Mfiondu Kabengele
• 2029 Unprotected FRP
• 35th pick
• Aaron Miles
• Mike Moser
• Ben Sullivan

IN:
• Wenyen Gabriel
• Jrue Holiday
• Oshae Brissett
• Kristaps Porzingis
• Dalano Banton
• Svi Mykhailiuk
• Lamar Stevens
• Jay Scrubb
• Neemias Queta
• Jordan Walsh
• 6 future 2RPs
• 1 2nd round swap
• Sam Cassell
• Charles Lee
• Phil Pressey
• Amile Jefferson

EDIT: Add Jeff Van Gundy as Senior Consultant (10/14)

Can't believe Brad found a way to get Wenyen.

In 28 months as POBO...

Brad Stevens notable extensions: Smart, Richardson, Timelord, Horford, Mazzulla, Brown, Porzingis, Pritchard
Brad Stevens notable trades (incoming): Richardson, Horford, White, Brogdon, Porzingis, Holiday

hugepatsfan wrote:I think it’s a stretch to give Ainge credit for Brogdon (via Nesmith) or White (via Langford). Both of those guys were busts who held little value in their trades. Brad got them primarily for giving up the future picks.

Any GM’s initial moves will have some tracings back to the previous regime. And don’t get me wrong, I’m on the side that Danny does deserve a lot of credit. But we don’t have to exaggerate. Having underperforming players under contract and not having traded away your future picks sets the next GM up to make trades but it’s a huge stretch to give “credit” to the old GM for that.

This roster has Jan Volk's fingerprints all over it

In terms of roster building, it seems pretty straightforward to take stock right now ... except for the part where we don't know yet how the new guys will actually perform.

-- Among the most important players, Brad replaced Kemba, Smart, Grant and Timelord with White, Holiday, Horford and Porzingis.
-- The main cost was 3 mid-late first-round picks already used by other teams, a lightly protected 2028 swap (which might actually convey if Wemby blows up and we disappoint), and an unprotected 2029 pick.

All the other stuff -- e.g. the vast numbers of 2nd-round picks circulating, or Nesmith, or the nice Hauser pickup -- are currently secondary in value to those players and picks.

Basically, Brad traded a lot of picks to change the whole team around the Jays.

Credit goes to Danny Ainge for everything since he hired Brad Stevens in the first place. Long Live Danny!