Blazers board: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF

[cocktailswith_2short]

There's some serious undervaluing of Rudy Fernandez in here.

He plays in a system that suits him . A lot of attention is taken off him by Roy,Aldridge, and Oden . He's a good player but not the be all end all .

[nitetrain8603]

There isn't a chance Fernandez is undervalued. The main problems with his trade value: does Portland want to keep him knowing full well that even for a lesser player at another position (say HInrich v Fernandez) their team becomes better? I don't think anyone is saying that Fernandez is some scrub, because he isn't. But what people are saying Portland might trade away from a position of wealth (SG where they technically have Roy, Webster, Bayless, Fernandez) to gain at either PG or SF. That's why Fernandez's name keeps popping up.

Now, it probably isn't smart for Portland to include Fernandez in a Kirk+Noce deal because I think the Bulls would do the deal WITHOUT him for the right guys, but I do think Paxson should try and get him. He replaces Gordon, has really good size and is already a decent shooter from the perimeter. If he can become an adequate defender and scorer, the Bulls could be back in the playoffs next year.

If Rudy is traded ever to the Bulls in the near future, Deng is coming back. The only reason they would be willing to give him up is if they knew it would get the deal done in a blockbuster deal. The Blazers don't really want to hang onto Bayless to be their PG of the future, but moreso because he's an asset and he still have quite the value around the league. I agree with anyone who says he's not a PG. He's the definition of a chucker if I ever saw one, except his long range game blows. Webster is still on the mend, and Portland would still like to evaluate to see what they have in him.

Reason Atl would do this deal is simple. They would have some young players under their control who would fit in and mesh with their young and athletic team. They also would save some cash this offseason since they already spent a lot last season. Portland is hesitant to give up Rudy/Martell/Bayless and especially a combination of the 3, but they would bite if ATL just wanted maybe one of them, and ATL would throw in a draft pick. From what I heard through the ATL source, the Blazers and Bulls had some discussions, but the Bulls don't want to sell their players low. They really don't just want back an expiring in '10 for Hinrich, the Blazers really wouldn't want to take on Noc at all or his contract. If the Bulls were somehow to throw in Deng, which the Bulls absolutely will not do unless they are getting a stud in return(think Roy + 1st for Deng and Hinrich), a match with Chicago doesn't seem likely. They may resurface though if deals with the other squads completely falter for the Blazers.

[Leto]

Please. Rudy is WAY overrated. After his November debut, teams figured out he likes to shoot the three. Since then, his FG% has fallen off considerably and his season totals are 41% and 37% from 3. In December, he shot 34% from 3 and in Jan he's at about 36%. That's average, but he isn't that good. Noce puts up similar percentages and so does Hinrich. Except Hinrich is a much better defender, passer and an initiator of the offense and Noce is alot tougher and better rebounder. So, most definitely Rudy is overrated.

[theanimal23]

the Blazers and Bulls had some discussions, but the Bulls don't want to sell their players low. They really don't just want back an expiring in '10 for Hinrich, the Blazers really wouldn't want to take on Noc at all or his contract. If the Bulls were somehow to throw in Deng, which the Bulls absolutely will not do unless they are getting a stud in return(think Roy + 1st for Deng and Hinrich), a match with Chicago doesn't seem likely. They may resurface though if deals with the other squads completely falter for the Blazers.

I appreciate the info. Nothing suprising/shocking. Basically just as we expected. But part of what you said is why I have such little faith in this regime.

[Sonny_D1]

Please. Rudy is WAY overrated. After his November debut, teams figured out he likes to shoot the three. Since then, his FG% has fallen off considerably and his season totals are 41% and 37% from 3. In December, he shot 34% from 3 and in Jan he's at about 36%. That's average, but he isn't that good. Noce puts up similar percentages and so does Hinrich. Except Hinrich is a much better defender, passer and an initiator of the offense and Noce is alot tougher and better rebounder. So, most definitely Rudy is overrated.

In fact, nibble on these numbers for a bit:

TS% .579
eFG% .535

[Ben]

Please. Rudy is WAY overrated. After his November debut, teams figured out he likes to shoot the three. Since then, his FG% has fallen off considerably and his season totals are 41% and 37% from 3. In December, he shot 34% from 3 and in Jan he's at about 36%. That's average, but he isn't that good. Noce puts up similar percentages and so does Hinrich. Except Hinrich is a much better defender, passer and an initiator of the offense and Noce is alot tougher and better rebounder. So, most definitely Rudy is overrated.

In fact, nibble on these numbers for a bit:

TS% .579
eFG% .535

Nibble on these numbers a bit:
TS% .585
eFG% .557

TS% .603
eFG .578

Those are J.R. Smith's percentages at age 21 and 22, both younger than Rudy is now. JR's a one-dimensional player and yet he scores considerably more per 36 than Rudy has. Rudy may not be quite as one-dimensional, but he's a shooter who has benefited tremendously from having a deep team and multiple scoring threats around him.

In my eyes it's more that he's overly hyped than overrated. We can't know yet whether he's overrated b/c we can't know what kind of player that he'll turn into. But because the hype around him has been so great, with many Portland fans insisting that they wouldn't trade him for anything less than an all-star (and sometimes not even then), he'll have to turn into an incredibly good player to justify it all. And, based on what he's done thus far, the odds on that don't seem great to me.

[coldfish]

From a purely statistical standpoint, look at Rudy's numbers:
Per game:
3.5 FGM 8.3 FGA
2.0 3PM 5.2 FGM
1.7 FTM 1.9 FTA

He is getting that efficiency by taking *mostly* 3 pointers and not a lot of them. In cases like that, people generally cannot maintain that efficiency with more minutes or shots. The shot quality goes way down.

[jax98]

Hell, let's throw Daequan Cook into this conversation (if he hasn't already, otherwise I missed it)

9.5 FG/A
5.7 FG3/A
0.9 FT/A

TS% - .525

He's comparable to Rudy from a scoring stand-point. Obviously, Rudy is a better all-around player, but I'd prefer to pay a tenth of the price of Rudy on Cook instead. Rudy has gotten so overhyped it's crazy. Much like every other Blazers player, his value is far away from being realistic.

[girlygirl]

I think one reason why Fernandez is highly valued is because even though he's a rookie in terms of the NBA, he has a TON of big games experience -- Olympics and Euroleague. So the feeling may be that he is far more ready to perform at a high level in the postseason than a more traditional rookie straight out of college.

He's also a very versatile player -- he can play the 2, the 3 and -- in a pinch -- the 1.

Besides all that, the Blazers had to jump through hoops just to convince him to come to the NBA in the first place. After all that effort, I dout they really want to trade him this quickly.

[Sonny_D1]

From a purely statistical standpoint, look at Rudy's numbers:
Per game:
3.5 FGM 8.3 FGA
2.0 3PM 5.2 FGM
1.7 FTM 1.9 FTA

He is getting that efficiency by taking *mostly* 3 pointers and not a lot of them. In cases like that, people generally cannot maintain that efficiency with more minutes or shots. The shot quality goes way down.

Or it could very well mean that he's only asked to shoot 3's or from the perimeter, on a team that features an excellent low post game and an excellent finisher in Roy? Or it could also mean that if he were given a few more minutes or more shots (driving more), he might be able to get himself into a better "rhythm" which is what most outside shooters do anyways? Playing on a team like the Bulls he'd certainly have more freedom to drive and be more of a "scorer" rather than just a shooter. Have you guys watched this kid play? He can finish, he can dish, and he can play D. At times you'd think he had eyes behind his head.

I suggest you all watch a few more Blazer games before comparing Rudy to players like JR Smith and Cook, efficiencies and all. If you guys haven't watched the Blazers enough to realize the difference, then there's really no reason for me to tire my fingers out typing on a Sunday.

[The ROY]

Besides all that, the Blazers had to jump through hoops just to convince him to come to the NBA in the first place. After all that effort, I dout they really want to trade him this quickly.

^^ BOTTOM LINE ^^

I don't understand the 'dreaming' going on with some of you LOL. He's a FAN favorite in Portland and they've obviously wanted him there for some time now. He's about as untouchable as it's gonna get.

Stop it, seriously

[Sonny_D1]

Besides all that, the Blazers had to jump through hoops just to convince him to come to the NBA in the first place. After all that effort, I dout they really want to trade him this quickly.

^^ BOTTOM LINE ^^

I don't understand the 'dreaming' going on with some of you LOL. He's a FAN favorite in Portland and they've obviously wanted him there for some time now. He's about as untouchable as it's gonna get.

Stop it, seriously

I don't think anyone is arguing his availabilty, although I personally think he can be had because he'll never get the opportunity to be a FT starter in Portland, people are arguing his worth as a player. Some have watched him a ton, others apparently haven't. I'm sure you can guess who's pro-Rudy.

[coldfish]

Or it could very well mean that he's only asked to shoot 3's or from the perimeter, on a team that features an excellent low post game and an excellent finisher in Roy? Or it could also mean that if he were given a few more minutes or more shots (driving more), he might be able to get himself into a better "rhythm" which is what most outside shooters do anyways? Playing on a team like the Bulls he'd certainly have more freedom to drive and be more of a "scorer" rather than just a shooter. Have you guys watched this kid play? He can finish, he can dish, and he can play D. At times you'd think he had eyes behind his head.

I suggest you all watch a few more Blazer games before comparing Rudy to players like JR Smith and Cook, efficiencies and all. If you guys haven't watched the Blazers enough to realize the difference, then there's really no reason for me to tire my fingers out typing on a Sunday.

My post was a purely statistical look at it, as I noted.

Fernandez certainly looks good, but there is nothing about him that screams "top end player", when I watch him. He doesn't seem to have Manu's overall game.

When I watch him, I actually see a lesser version of Kevin Martin, which is certainly a good player, but not worth going ga ga over, like some.

[Sonny_D1]

Or it could very well mean that he's only asked to shoot 3's or from the perimeter, on a team that features an excellent low post game and an excellent finisher in Roy? Or it could also mean that if he were given a few more minutes or more shots (driving more), he might be able to get himself into a better "rhythm" which is what most outside shooters do anyways? Playing on a team like the Bulls he'd certainly have more freedom to drive and be more of a "scorer" rather than just a shooter. Have you guys watched this kid play? He can finish, he can dish, and he can play D. At times you'd think he had eyes behind his head.

I suggest you all watch a few more Blazer games before comparing Rudy to players like JR Smith and Cook, efficiencies and all. If you guys haven't watched the Blazers enough to realize the difference, then there's really no reason for me to tire my fingers out typing on a Sunday.

My post was a purely statistical look at it, as I noted.

Does Kevin Martin do anything else but score? As an all-around player, Rudy is far superior to Martin.

Fernandez certainly looks good, but there is nothing about him that screams "top end player", when I watch him. He doesn't seem to have Manu's overall game.

When I watch him, I actually see a lesser version of Kevin Martin, which is certainly a good player, but not worth going ga ga over, like some.

Does Kevin do anything else besides score? As an overall player, Rudy is superior to Martin.

[coldfish]

Does Kevin Martin do anything else but score? As an all-around player, Rudy is far superior to Martin.

Apparently I caught Rudy on his bad games, because I didn't see him do much more than score.

[GOBlazers]

Expect the unexpected.

Expect the Pritch Slap!

[BuLLs>LiFe]

I'll admit I haven't been able to watch a ton of Rudy other than when the Bulls play the Blazers, but I have read some critiques of him on the Blazers board. From what I can see of the objective posters over there, a LOT of fans give him a free pass on a ton of things. Apparently, defensively he is less than spectacular and isn't particularly good at creating offense for himself. Maybe, he won't have to do that much with Rose. However, they were also saying that he isn't a good fit next to Roy, because Rudy needs the ball in his hands to be more effective. I think that directly clashes with what we want and expect from Rose. Any thoughts on that?

[Sonny_D1]

Does Kevin Martin do anything else but score? As an all-around player, Rudy is far superior to Martin.

Apparently I caught Rudy on his bad games, because I didn't see him do much more than score.

Perhaps, but like I've been trying to say, he just isn't given the opportunity to do his "thing." It's really hard to explain, you just have to watch the games to understand. You see him make plays and do some things where you just know that he has special talent. It happens all the time in sports, you just know some players can shine given the OPPORTUNITY. He's shown flashes, but he'll never have the consistency to perform there.

Again, that's why I suggest people watch more Blazer games.

BTW, I suspect we'll see alot more of Rudy after next weekends all-star festivities, in terms of hype and exposure. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Rudy will really shine in that rookie game.

[theanimal23]

Expect the unexpected.

Expect the Pritch Slap!

League Email?

[Red Larrivee]

I'll admit I haven't been able to watch a ton of Rudy other than when the Bulls play the Blazers, but I have read some critiques of him on the Blazers board. From what I can see of the objective posters over there, a LOT of fans give him a free pass on a ton of things. Apparently, defensively he is less than spectacular and isn't particularly good at creating offense for himself. Maybe, he won't have to do that much with Rose. However, they were also saying that he isn't a good fit next to Roy, because Rudy needs the ball in his hands to be more effective. I think that directly clashes with what we want and expect from Rose. Any thoughts on that?

I think that directly clashes with what Blazers fans are saying, if that's really the consensus (especially what I have in bold). I can't see how a player who is bad creating offense for himself, needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He should definitely be a player who plays off the ball for the most part.

Overall, I think he has a similar game to Peja Stojakovic, except quicker and possibly not as good of a scorer, but that remains to be seen. If he turns into some form of Peja, that definitely isn't a bad 3rd or 4th option to have on your team. He'd compliment Rose greatly.