I watched the Suns-Pacers game on League Pass. I'm definitely not coming here to bash (in fact I was cheering for the Pacers in this one).
Just one question about Tinsley: Does he always do that? That was shameful.
Tinsley (from an outsider)
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Tinsley (from an outsider)
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Egg Nog
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Eindar
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Usually he has a tendency to try to "battle" the other team's PG, and it seems like he used to try that under Carlisle, but Carlisle would put the brakes on it immediately, whereas O'Brien just let him run wild.
There has been some speculation that maybe the other guys were tired and Tinsley was trying to put them on his back, but I'm not so sure about that.
I detest any player not named Kobe Bryant or LeBron James trying to take over an NBA game like that, but nobody else has proven that they can play like they aren't castrated with 4:00 or less to play in the game, so while I hate it, I can't even say it was the wrong thing to do, because Tinsley, and to a lesser extent Granger are the only two guys on this team that I have ever seen make a big shot.
There has been some speculation that maybe the other guys were tired and Tinsley was trying to put them on his back, but I'm not so sure about that.
I detest any player not named Kobe Bryant or LeBron James trying to take over an NBA game like that, but nobody else has proven that they can play like they aren't castrated with 4:00 or less to play in the game, so while I hate it, I can't even say it was the wrong thing to do, because Tinsley, and to a lesser extent Granger are the only two guys on this team that I have ever seen make a big shot.
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ajizzle
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Well, to me, Tinsley is like a mix between Mark Jackson and Magic Johnson... Neither of whom do I want taking the last shot. I don't mind the ball being in their hands at the ends of games, but definitely not shooting the ball, unless it's a layup or at least leading to foul shots.
Obie has got to stop Jamaal when he does that... it works every now and then, but overall, his J is too shaky and he can't get to the line. My candidate is Danny to take over Reggie's role. He has the best J off the dribble, he's usually taller than his defender, he's really worked on and improved that Top-O-The-Key J that the Jordans, Kobes, and Wades seem to hit at the end of games, he's got good lift on his shot, and he's performed pretty well in pressure situations on offense, especially when the shot clock or game clock is almost gone.
Obie has got to stop Jamaal when he does that... it works every now and then, but overall, his J is too shaky and he can't get to the line. My candidate is Danny to take over Reggie's role. He has the best J off the dribble, he's usually taller than his defender, he's really worked on and improved that Top-O-The-Key J that the Jordans, Kobes, and Wades seem to hit at the end of games, he's got good lift on his shot, and he's performed pretty well in pressure situations on offense, especially when the shot clock or game clock is almost gone.
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PacerGuy
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ajizzle wrote:Well, to me, Tinsley is like a mix between Mark Jackson and Magic Johnson...
We only WISH!.... That statment is Blasphomy towards both those players!
Tinsley is a PG! He is suppose to RUN an offense, not BE the offense. He selfishly took over the last 3 min's of the game & was the only one to even get an opportunity to shoot on OT! He did not pass, or did he even look in the direction of other players out there. Hell, Shawne W. was 9-12 w/ 22 pts, & all we had him in OT for was to watch JT & to foul out. Janaal never even tried to get the ball to him.
That said, O'B F'ed up too - at the end of regulation by not calling a time out, explaining the clock & getting Shawne in there on our last posession. Hell we misses 11 straight at one point, only 1 make there & we win. Shawne should have been in there well before. And lastly, that last posession of ours was NOT a "rythum" or "short-time" posession where not taking a TO woas helpful - not calling a TO killed our chance & almost won it for PHX - IMO.
ajizzle wrote:Obie has got to stop Jamaal when he does that... .
You Think?........
Not just in WHAT Jamaal did made it shameful, but it was HOW he did it. There might as well not have been 4 other guys in Pacer gear out on the court w/ him in OT. O'B better address that - or I'm afraid his teamates will! A bad locker room is not what we need on top of the losing!
Larry Bird, You are now on the Clock! ( 3/24/08 )
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mizzoupacers
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Look, guys...here is the game log for last night:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280109021&period=4
Look at the fourth quarter. Now look at the last five minutes, which is where the Pacers blew the game.
From the five-minute mark until the 1:39 mark, the Pacers attempted nine shots from the field. They missed all nine. Seven of the nine shots were taken by someone other than Tinsley.
In the last minute and a half, the Pacers took three shots from the field, all by Tinsley. That's not at all unusual for an NBA team to look for its team leader to score the late baskets, especially when the rest of the team has gone ice-cold.
I'm not a big Tinsley fan, and it's a sad indictment of our team that we ever have to look for him to be our "go-to guy." But come on now, what would you have him do? With the game on the line, his teammates stopped moving on offense, couldn't hit a shot, and didn't much act like they wanted the ball. I don't have too much of a problem with him trying to be The Man under those circumstances.
Tinsley sucked down the stretch last night. But the whole team sucked. If you have to get mad about it, blame the whole team, don't scapegoat Tinsley. At least he tried.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280109021&period=4
Look at the fourth quarter. Now look at the last five minutes, which is where the Pacers blew the game.
From the five-minute mark until the 1:39 mark, the Pacers attempted nine shots from the field. They missed all nine. Seven of the nine shots were taken by someone other than Tinsley.
In the last minute and a half, the Pacers took three shots from the field, all by Tinsley. That's not at all unusual for an NBA team to look for its team leader to score the late baskets, especially when the rest of the team has gone ice-cold.
I'm not a big Tinsley fan, and it's a sad indictment of our team that we ever have to look for him to be our "go-to guy." But come on now, what would you have him do? With the game on the line, his teammates stopped moving on offense, couldn't hit a shot, and didn't much act like they wanted the ball. I don't have too much of a problem with him trying to be The Man under those circumstances.
Tinsley sucked down the stretch last night. But the whole team sucked. If you have to get mad about it, blame the whole team, don't scapegoat Tinsley. At least he tried.
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PacerGuy
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True, to a point (but some very good points by you),..... But....
As I stated, he never even tried to involve others.
If you watched it, it was total 1-on-5 basketball. He never even looked to pass. I'm not saying I have a huge problem w/ him trying to lif/ carry this team when needed, in fact I kinda liked it to a point, but come on, atleast try some ball movement, a kick-out... something. There are 4 other ball players out there w/ him. Soon as he got the ball, he started HIS offense, not OUR offense. That was my problem w/ him l/n.
As I stated, he never even tried to involve others.
If you watched it, it was total 1-on-5 basketball. He never even looked to pass. I'm not saying I have a huge problem w/ him trying to lif/ carry this team when needed, in fact I kinda liked it to a point, but come on, atleast try some ball movement, a kick-out... something. There are 4 other ball players out there w/ him. Soon as he got the ball, he started HIS offense, not OUR offense. That was my problem w/ him l/n.
Larry Bird, You are now on the Clock! ( 3/24/08 )
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fdefore
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mizzoupacers wrote:But from the five-minute mark on, the whole team stunk. It wasn't just one guy.
FTW
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PacerFan fdefore very clever. You are our kind of guy
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PacerFan fdefore very clever. You are our kind of guy
count55 fdefore add count55 to your moderator approved sig
PacerPerspective I agree whole heartedly fdefore You are now PP approved
all the cool Mods are doin it Scoot
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xxSnEaKyPxx
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From the 5 minute mark? He sucked from the end of the 4th and the ENTIRE overtime. He didn't even look to pass. Granger could have hit a shot, Dunleavy was on the floor.
TINSLEY WAS TRYING TO POST UP AMARE! How in the world is that better than Granger taking a shot, how is Tinsley taking a 3 more effective than Granger taking a shot. Just once, just one time. But no, Tinsley shot the ball from 5 feet behind the 3 point line, attempted to post up Amare, didn't pass the ball 1 time in the overtime. Its pathetic, and with that game I give up on him for good. I have always been a fan, even in the rough times for him. I am so pissed about his decision making last night, that even though he is having an All-Star year, I would flat out trade him for crap. Pure crap, I wouldn't care. I don't want his selfishness on our team. The only reason he gets assists is so his own stats go up. He doesn't care about the team, he showed me that last night.
TINSLEY WAS TRYING TO POST UP AMARE! How in the world is that better than Granger taking a shot, how is Tinsley taking a 3 more effective than Granger taking a shot. Just once, just one time. But no, Tinsley shot the ball from 5 feet behind the 3 point line, attempted to post up Amare, didn't pass the ball 1 time in the overtime. Its pathetic, and with that game I give up on him for good. I have always been a fan, even in the rough times for him. I am so pissed about his decision making last night, that even though he is having an All-Star year, I would flat out trade him for crap. Pure crap, I wouldn't care. I don't want his selfishness on our team. The only reason he gets assists is so his own stats go up. He doesn't care about the team, he showed me that last night.
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JarrettJackSG
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WHO THE HELL ELSE WAS GONNA MAKE A SHOT LAST NIGHT.
Rest in Peace, Pacerfan
Will eat crow if Brandon Rush turns out good.
Will eat crow if Brandon Rush turns out good.
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JarrettJackSG
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Obie gave Jamaal control of the team last night. He was the one who could score, he was the one who drove, he was the one who got fouls.
Trust Granger in crunch time? I don't yet. Trust Dunleavy? If he could create his own shot, yes.
Who do we have in our team who can create their own shot?
Trust Granger in crunch time? I don't yet. Trust Dunleavy? If he could create his own shot, yes.
Who do we have in our team who can create their own shot?
Rest in Peace, Pacerfan
Will eat crow if Brandon Rush turns out good.
Will eat crow if Brandon Rush turns out good.
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ajizzle
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I didn't get to see the 4th/OT, but this is why we really need to do away w/ most of our ISO POST plays... b/c while sometimes that players has an advantage and can score, we don't have players who pass out of the post, which takes away its effectiveness, especially on a team of shooters.
While Tinsley had a bad game, he was doing what he thought was best for the team. It was wrong, but these accusations of Tinsley only passing the ball just to up his own stats is a tad over-the-top. He was our go-to guy before he got injured, and he's had some success in the post during late-game situations.
I do agree that although we missed those shots, we still needed to run the same offense we had been using to get to 100+ points, which is the motion offense. I definitely don't support an ISO for Dunleavy, but a double-screen to free him up for a J would be nice. In fact, I don't really want any of our guys in an ISO situation, but the drive-and-kick/Princeton weave could probably free up one of the million shooters we have.
Giving up on Tinsley right now is a bad idea, especially after he's seemed to finally found a niche here. Giving up on almost any ISO is a much better alternative. Danny maybe, but everyone else, not so much.
While Tinsley had a bad game, he was doing what he thought was best for the team. It was wrong, but these accusations of Tinsley only passing the ball just to up his own stats is a tad over-the-top. He was our go-to guy before he got injured, and he's had some success in the post during late-game situations.
I do agree that although we missed those shots, we still needed to run the same offense we had been using to get to 100+ points, which is the motion offense. I definitely don't support an ISO for Dunleavy, but a double-screen to free him up for a J would be nice. In fact, I don't really want any of our guys in an ISO situation, but the drive-and-kick/Princeton weave could probably free up one of the million shooters we have.
Giving up on Tinsley right now is a bad idea, especially after he's seemed to finally found a niche here. Giving up on almost any ISO is a much better alternative. Danny maybe, but everyone else, not so much.