Official Trade Proposal Thread

[geiger]

Give the fella a break. He had a nice season with the Sixers.

As for Miller, we will be screwed if he leaves. If Williams is not ready or not capable, we won't necessarily keep Miller - he has to want to stay - he's unrestricted. As we saw with Brand, sometimes even the most money offered isn't enough. We saw Baron leave Golden State because he wanted to be home in LA. And don't overstate Miller's value - when you say he has a positive effect on young teams, that doesn't involve the Cavaliers or the Clippers and success in Denver coincided with Carmelo Anthony's arrival, not Miller's. He had a career year at 32. I wouldn't bet on a repeat at 33. And don't forget, he walks or isn't re-signed before the season is over, and we don't get to use our MLE or LLE next season. Trades at the deadline are much more difficult to make under the current system - the lack of big deadline deals over the past few years evidences that. There is usually one or two big moves a few weeks before the deadline and then nothing - a stiff for a second round pick. And if you're competing against one of those big moves with a guy like Miller, you might lose out. I'd rather make the move now and see what we got and who is capable of doing what, including giving Williams a chance to be the starting PG. This team as constituted now can't win - it needs a shooter in the starting line-up. Between Iggy, Young and Miller, I move the guy who in his 30's.

[Phillyboy]

We'll continue to disagree about Andre Miller but let's keep talking about trade strategy for a moment. No offense, but I don't believe your assessment of a deadline trade is accurate in this case.

There are many theories around the art of negotiation. I've applied many different tactics over my career and one of my own observations is that the most dangerous guy in the meeting is the one who has nothing to lose.

If we trade him we'll get value. (Best value out of teams itching to make a move) if we don't we take the expiring. You may not think that's value but I'm sure a GM running a team for the long term would diagree. As eager as you are to turn over personnel we cannot ignore our responsibilities to "turn over" the payroll when occasion arises and even plan for it. That's how you keep a core of players long term and even give you some options down the road

This is another reason why it's very important to develop Lou Williams this year. If he's ready to assume a starting role we can negotiate from even a greater position of strength. We don't need to settle for best offer we now command our price.

A powerful driver in negotiation is time. Who has the deadline and therefore must blink first? If they want the big expiring (to take off their books) they better jump before February 23rd or this contract is gone forever.

If there is no driver compelling US to make a deal NOW then we wait until the conditions for sale are the most advantegeous to us the seller.That's at the deadline.

The deadline would mean much more to the team trying to acquire Miller than to us (our position- trade him or keep him, it's all the same to us)

[geiger]

You're leaving other another important consideration though - last year, Andre Miller had a career season. If he goes back to his average career numbers this season, his value drops further and we get less for him at the trade deadline than we would now. Also, if he should get injured, which is a possibility in light of his turning 33 this year, that would prevent us from trading him all together. I hear what you're saying about waiting until the deadline, but I think we could get more for him before the season starts than we would at the deadline, when trading him might become an impossibility.

[geiger]

I see Knicks are about to trade Renaldo Balkman to Denver for Taureen Green and Bobby Jones only to waive them. I wonder if we can send rights to Edin Bavcic and Ricky Sanchez to New York for Balkman. Better deal for them since they won't have to spend a penny on cutting those two and we get a solid, defensive minded small foward to back up Young.

[sixers hoops]

I see Knicks are about to trade Renaldo Balkman to Denver for Taureen Green and Bobby Jones only to waive them. I wonder if we can send rights to Edin Bavcic and Ricky Sanchez to New York for Balkman. Better deal for them since they won't have to spend a penny on cutting those two and we get a solid, defensive minded small foward to back up Young.

Wouldn't we still have to match salaries? Sanchez and Bacvic are not signed and wouldn't count as outgoing salary. Therefore, we are over the cap and couldn't accept Balkman without sending out actual salary.

If this trade is possible, I would do it. I just don't know about the possible snag I mentioned.

[geiger]

Trade checker allows it, but I don't know. Balkman makes less than a million a year right now, so perhaps that's why.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

He did play with Elton Brand before and they were terrible together, with a team whose performance was far below expectations, with Miller leaving at the end of the year, so let's hope history won't repeat itself.

If we deal Miller, it doesn't mean we got with Lou as our lone and only full time PG. We lose Miller after next season for nothing and we're screwed. We'll only have about $3 million under the cap and because we will be under the cap, we won't have the ability to use the MLE or the LLE. Or we can re-sign Miller, who doesn't seem to love it on the East Coast, and give him a 3 or 4 year deal that he wants, which will pay him in the $10 million per year range into his mid to late 30s and watch a team that doesn't fit together. We either have to re-sign him to an extension before he enters free agency or we need to trade him. Because we need to use that MLE and LLE next season if we hope to take that next step.

I wouldn't mind seeing if Cleveland would take Miller, Green and Evans for Pavlovic, sign and traded Delonte West, and Wally Sczerbiak and his huge expiring contract. We would free up some cap space, get some shooters and I think we can be effective with Iggy at the 2 and West, Williams and Ivey at the point.

Man you're stuck on moving our PG. Sorry but I'll disagree strongly. I've made my position clear in regard to Miller so there's no sense in repeating. Keeping Andre Miller is a good basketball and a good business move.

If he leaves next year we're not "screwed" at all.

If we let him leave it's because we feel we can fill his spot with a younger guy (LW?) and take his 10M off our books. The Sixers are probably figuring for this possibility now as they negotiate long term deals with our two RFAs.

And again, if you must trade him you do it at the deadline when his return value is highest. His big expiring contract and his penchant for re-organizing young teams may draw some very interesting offers. Right now we're best taking the team we have into the season and then adjust under battle conditions.

And hey Geiger- You're one of the lousiest stiffs to ever lace up a pair of sneakers!

If Andre Miller expires, we'll only have 2 to 3 million under the cap, this won't be significant enough to attract any major shooters. The MLE is becoming more and more Significant now(which is good, more and more teams can compete for high market FA'S) at 6 million a year.

We must find out, once and for all. If on the NBA level, Louis Williams is a starter. If he is, great. If not, we're in trouble. This lineup will need Andre Iguodala to step up BIG TIME. And finally develop a set shot or the ability to get an open shot. And as I've said numerous times, I heavily doubt Iguodala does so.

Iguodala is still valuable. Miller barely has any value as a 33 yr old PG for this team.

Mo Williams for Miller swap, I repeat.

[Phillyboy]

You're leaving other another important consideration though - last year, Andre Miller had a career season. If he goes back to his average career numbers this season, his value drops further and we get less for him at the trade deadline than we would now. Also, if he should get injured, which is a possibility in light of his turning 33 this year, that would prevent us from trading him all together. I hear what you're saying about waiting until the deadline, but I think we could get more for him before the season starts than we would at the deadline, when trading him might become an impossibility.

In February he's going to be too old to trade?

(Which is only 7 months from now isn't he too old already by your logic?)

Age has nothing to do with the strategy. Miller could literally be a dead body dressed in a uniform and he'll still be very tradeable. It's the expiring contract that's extremely attractive and will only be on the market for X amount of time. Andre Miller the player may be very available after Feb 23rd but that contract is gone forever.

DEADLINE BUYER

It's all moot because Miller is going nowhere but if we were to trade a jewel contract we only can trade it once. If you want the most back you position yourself to be the winner in the deal. You've heard of "the right place at the right time" well sometimes you can manufacture the ideal conditions.

All I'm saying

[geiger]

Except we don't want to move an expiring contract to a team looking to clear salary space for junk - we want to move a PG coming off a career season and get expiring contracts and good young players in return. That's a lot easier to do now when his value is at an all time high than it is during the season when other players might unexpectedly become available, when management might block a trade due to financial reasons, and when Miller's play may have come back down to Earth and his numbers look more like his career numbers and not the highs he posted last season in both shooting percentage and scoring. If he puts up 13 and 7 this season, he'll be less valuable for half a season than coming off a 17 and 7 season when he shot 50% which he won't repeat again, and be available to a team for a full season.

[Phillyboy]

OK maybe I should just bluntly state that I will not be convinced that moving Miller now is a good idea.

Besides, that's not where I'm going. It could be Miller it could be Joe Sh*t the rag man my post was about when to trade/acquire assests and not about a specific player per se.

Part of the fun of posting is to put yourself in the driver's seat. What would you do if you were the GM of the Sixers?

To be successful you need to mind the store as well as watch the games. Trades for the sakes of trades will hurt the long term continuity of both team and business. The handling of an expiring contract of this magnitude (let alone your starting PG) needs to be carefully considered and if undecided it's best to stand pat.

When you trade an expiring contract you've now extended the organization (since I doubt we're getting expirings in return) so you do so ONLY if you MUST spend that jewel on a critical upgrade and if you MUST you do it when they're calling you and not the other way around. Again this is not Miller specific. Historically (before Stefanski) the Sixers generally keep the big expirings.

No sense continuing this, we're not likely to get anywhere so I guess I'll talk to you in another thread and another topic.

[geiger]

Obviously and I'm a lot more convinced that Stefanski will consider both the short term and long term implications and manage the cap better than Billy King. Honestly, don't you feel better that irrespective of our personal disagreement on what is the best course of conduct with respect to Miller, it will be Stefanski making that decision and not Billy King giving Miller a 5 year max exension and putting us into absolute salary cap hell.

[UptownPhilly]

Reggie Evans + First Rounder for Raja Bell

Philly gets another 3 pt. shooter/Good defender

Phoenix gets a good big man for the bench, who is also a good rebounder.

Miller/Williams/Ivey
Iguodala/Bell/Green
Young/Rush
Brand/Speights
Dalembert/Smith

All we need is a vet backup center.

[sixers hoops]

Reggie Evans + First Rounder for Raja Bell

Philly gets another 3 pt. shooter/Good defender

Phoenix gets a good big man for the bench, who is also a good rebounder.

Miller/Williams/Ivey
Iguodala/Bell/Green
Young/Rush
Brand/Speights
Dalembert/Smith

All we need is a vet backup center.

Good deal for us. I imagine Phoenix wouldn't do it. Especially for our potentially low first-rounder.

[UptownPhilly]

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't wanna sell low. Bell would be a perfect fit on our squad, whether he starts or comes off the bench. We would have a good mix of young guys/vets.

Battier is another guy I would love to have, but would also be very hard to obtain.

[geiger]

No one will give us anything for Reggie Evans. With his contract, we would have to give someone something just to take him. We're certainly not getting Raja Bell for him. Now that we have Rush, and presuming we re-sign Williams and Iggy, there is no need for Bell. Evans certainly serves absolutely zero purpose for Phoenix.

[76ersxMVP]

I think Willie Green and Reggie Evans have to be traded someway or somehow.. they are taking up cap space that we could use on a good young player.

[geiger]

I think we should trade Iguodala for Kobe and Miller for Chris Paul. Somehow.

[ckchen]

I think Willie Green and Reggie Evans have to be traded someway or somehow.. they are taking up cap space that we could use on a good young player.

I don't think that there are many teams that would take them due to the length and size of their contracts. I personally don't think we need to trade them (they are both adequate players, while overpaid, that you can use on this team).

However, if we were to trade them, I came up with the following list of potential partners, based purely on contract length and size. That is, assuming that the reason people won't trade for them is because they are hoarding cap space for some future date, these options would not change their cap situation:

So basically, these trades all end up being a wash financially (basically) - so we can discuss whether or not the other side would do it, or if it helps us:

Evans+Green to CHI for Nocioni:

This obviously looks better for the Sixers than it does for the Bulls - Nocioni can be an extremely productive player who can play 3/4 and shoots pretty well and doesn't seem to mind playing off the bench. I can't really come up with a legitimate reasons why the Bulls would do it, but I would sure like it to happen.


Evans+Green to MIL for Mo Williams:

At the end of the year, Sessions proved he might be a better and cheaper alternative to Mo Williams. They have Bell who can play spot minutes a PG, and they just signed Ty Lue. I think that they could use a rugged backup to Villanueva in Evans. I'm not sure if this helps Philly - we all know that Mo Williams has defensive liabilities, but he can score, and could possibly be the future PG if we don't re-sign Miller next year.


Evans+Green to PHX for Diaw:

Again, not so sure what the benefit is to PHX - except for the fact that they have been openly shopping Diaw. Maybe two slightly smaller salaries would be easier for them to move than a single giant one. For the Sixers, Diaw could prove to be a versatile backup for all of the frontcourt positions.


Evans+Green to NYK for Jamal Crawford

Works from a salary perspective, and we all know that NY is trying to reshape its roster. However, I'm not sure that these two guys really fit their new system better Crawford, so this would probably never happen. For the Sixers, however, Crawford might be a nice 1/2 swingman.


Evans+Green for Radmanovic+Mihm

While this doesn't exactly fit the salary criteria I mentioned before (Mihm is on a 1 yr deal) - I can see the Lakers doing this if they think it will help them win - Radmanovic doesn't seem to fit their team very well and Mihm is just a fill-in at this point. Evans could provide a much needed hustle rebounder/defender to replace what they lost in Ronnie Turiaf. Radmanovic is a defensive liability, but can shoot from a 3/4 spot and might help the Sixers in that sense (as well as the slight benefit in salary cap relief).


Evans+Green for Tinsley+Shawne Williams/Baston/Diener/Trade Exception

Again, not a true fit from a salary perspective, but we all know Bird is just dying to get rid of these two guys, but doesn't want to waive them, to the point where he is saying he'd rather leave them at home than waive them. To me, this means that somehow they have even less trade value than Evans and Green. However, I can see how they might fit the Sixers somewhat better. There is some salary relief for taking whatever filler ends up with Tinsley. Actually Diener isn't bad, but completely extraneous with Ford/Jack there, and Shawne Williams actually isn't a bad player, just sort of a screw-up. I think they have a TE they could also use from the JO trade. To me, it all depends on how much they want to be rid of Tinsley - but he could also be the PG backup/eventual replacement to Miller if you're willing to take a risk.

[IggyTheBEaST]

Some of you may be skeptical, but here is a trade I would seriously consider:


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Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Mike Dunleavy
6-8 SF / PF from Duke
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
Willie Green
6-2 SG from Detroit Mercy
No games yet played in 2007/08
Reggie Evans
6-8 PF from Iowa
No games yet played in 2007/08
Indiana Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Willie Green
6-2 SG from Detroit Mercy
No games yet played in 2007/08
Reggie Evans
6-8 PF from Iowa
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
Mike Dunleavy
6-8 SF / PF from Duke
No games yet played in 2007/08



We take on a chunky deal but improve alot on the baskeball court, plus open up more minutes at the 2 and get speights more pt.


Miller(36)/LW(12)
Iggy(34)/Rush(10)/LW(4)
Thad(28)/Dunleavy(16)/Iggy(4)
Brand(34/Speights(9)/Dunleavy(5)
Daly(34)/Smith(12)/Brand(2)

[geiger]

Yeah and Indiana would have to be the stupidest team in the entire league to something this unbelievably idiotic. Come on man. Why in God's green Earth would they do something like that? They give up a young player who put up 19 a game and can shoot the rock for two bums who have bad long term contracts and who don't fit O'Brien's system at all?

As for the previous Evans & Green proposals, I don't think anyone even considers them with the exception of Indiana possibly agreeing to move two criminals, one with a terrible injury history and a bad long term contract, for two guys who don't fit, but who are individually cheaper than what they give up. Why the Sixers would want to add those two guys though is beyond me. Williams I can see - Tinsley? Not so much. But Indiana isn't moving Williams for either Evans or Green - neither one fits with O'Brien's system.