2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Y’all are dreaming if you think we are moving off of Beal and getting something substantial back. If not for Simmons, our boy Bradley has the worst contract in the league. You can get three guys to do the same thing at his cost. Heck, it’s not going to be easy to move KD either. Well, sure we can trade him, but you better just forget what we gave up.
Unless it goes south fast and hard, we are running the Pig Three back….with all their pork
Unless it goes south fast and hard, we are running the Pig Three back….with all their pork
What ? Me Worry ?
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Frank Lee wrote:Y’all are dreaming if you think we are moving off of Beal and getting something substantial back. If not for Simmons, our boy Bradley has the worst contract in the league. You can get three guys to do the same thing at his cost. Heck, it’s not going to be easy to move KD either. Well, sure we can trade him, but you better just forget what we gave up.
Unless it goes south fast and hard, we are running the Pig Three back….with all their pork
You have more hyperbole than any other poster...possibly in all of RealGM. So KD will be a difficult sell and we'll be taking back just salary then huh? Maybe we get a protected 1st back. Maybe.
KD is having 1 of the best years of his CAREER. Which, for the record includes his MVP year.
Go back and re-read what I just posted above ^^^
Look at his numbers, offensive and defensive and find me 4 other seasons where he had this health and this impact on both sides. Jesus, between you and BW and his thoughts that Josh (cant shoot and was almost arrested for underage rape) Giddey is more valuable it's like you guys think Durant is a washed freaking scrub. You boys do watch the games hopefully lol.
He's playing amazing this year. Absolutely amazing. We'd literally be in the lotto without him.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Nobody is doubting his stats dude… but in the small handful needing him, its not an easy task to load up 48 mil in return, regardless how much need you manufacture. Furthermore, why would we deal him anyways, unless its a blow up. Wishbea has done the ‘all’… we just havent hit the ‘or nothing’ yet.
Quit trying to make your point by arguing mine. We arent trading anybody. You doubt that?
Quit trying to make your point by arguing mine. We arent trading anybody. You doubt that?
What ? Me Worry ?
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Frank Lee wrote:Nobody is doubting his stats dude… but in the small handful needing him, its not an easy task to load up 48 mil in return, regardless how much need you manufacture. Furthermore, why would we deal him anyways, unless its a blow up. Wishbea has done the ‘all’… we just havent hit the ‘or nothing’ yet.
Quit trying to make your point by arguing mine. We arent trading anybody. You doubt that?
I think the playoffs will decide all. If we phase out and lose in/don't make the play-in then yes, I can see us moving 1 of the Big 3 (Durant). If we actually play up to our ability? We can win it all or at least make it to the Finals. How many other teams have beaten Denver twice this year?
We have the wide lane of possibilities of any team in the league. By far.
Who we trade to? I've mentioned OKC numerous times. I think BW's idea of the Knicks makes sense as well. Aside from them, I can see Atlanta, Orlando and New Orleans as other possibilities for a KD trade, though far less likely obviously.
Once again the playoffs will show all for those teams and ours of course. Gun to my head? Yes, I think 1 of our current starters will not be playing here come Oct. Be that Durant or Nurk or whoever we'll see.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Slim Charless wrote:Frank Lee wrote:Nobody is doubting his stats dude… but in the small handful needing him, its not an easy task to load up 48 mil in return, regardless how much need you manufacture. Furthermore, why would we deal him anyways, unless its a blow up. Wishbea has done the ‘all’… we just havent hit the ‘or nothing’ yet.
Quit trying to make your point by arguing mine. We arent trading anybody. You doubt that?
I think the playoffs will decide all. If we phase out and lose in/don't make the play-in then yes, I can see us moving 1 of the Big 3 (Durant). If we actually play up to our ability? We can win it all or at least make it to the Finals. How many other teams have beaten Denver twice this year?
We have the wide lane of possibilities of any team in the league. By far.
Who we trade to? I've mentioned OKC numerous times. I think BW's idea of the Knicks makes sense as well. Aside from them, I can see Atlanta, Orlando and New Orleans as other possibilities for a KD trade, though far less likely obviously.
Once again the playoffs will show all for those teams and ours of course. Gun to my head? Yes, I think 1 of our current starters will not be playing here come Oct. Be that Durant or Nurk or whoever we'll see.
I don't see this at all. At least not this offseason. I don't believe Ishbia is in it for the short term (ie one season window) and any trade involving KD (you already pointed to his stats) is almost certainly going to be a downgrade in talent and I just don't see Ishbia being ok with that. Should also point out KD was his first, signature move as owner of the Phoenix Suns. He's going to exhaust all options/opportunities with this Big 3 before he goes the way of breaking up the team.
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Trust me... i've looked into any and all possible scenarios where we could possibly get rid of Beal and none of them are any good. We're stuck.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
lilfishi22 wrote:Slim Charless wrote:Frank Lee wrote:Nobody is doubting his stats dude… but in the small handful needing him, its not an easy task to load up 48 mil in return, regardless how much need you manufacture. Furthermore, why would we deal him anyways, unless its a blow up. Wishbea has done the ‘all’… we just havent hit the ‘or nothing’ yet.
Quit trying to make your point by arguing mine. We arent trading anybody. You doubt that?
I think the playoffs will decide all. If we phase out and lose in/don't make the play-in then yes, I can see us moving 1 of the Big 3 (Durant). If we actually play up to our ability? We can win it all or at least make it to the Finals. How many other teams have beaten Denver twice this year?
We have the wide lane of possibilities of any team in the league. By far.
Who we trade to? I've mentioned OKC numerous times. I think BW's idea of the Knicks makes sense as well. Aside from them, I can see Atlanta, Orlando and New Orleans as other possibilities for a KD trade, though far less likely obviously.
Once again the playoffs will show all for those teams and ours of course. Gun to my head? Yes, I think 1 of our current starters will not be playing here come Oct. Be that Durant or Nurk or whoever we'll see.
I don't see this at all. At least not this offseason. I don't believe Ishbia is in it for the short term (ie one season window) and any trade involving KD (you already pointed to his stats) is almost certainly going to be a downgrade in talent and I just don't see Ishbia being ok with that. Should also point out KD was his first, signature move as owner of the Phoenix Suns. He's going to exhaust all options/opportunities with this Big 3 before he goes the way of breaking up the team.
Might not be up to him all the way. This ends badly enough (we don't make the play-in or lose in it) I can see KD looking around. I do think that what you say is the likely reason that KD stays. Because of Ish. I don't think that if given an opportunity Presti passes on the chance to add Durant to the his team-esp if he gets to keep Chet/SGA/J-Dubb as the main core. This thing will henge on how we look and how KD feels about the whole thing going forward.
As I said, we have the talent to win it all. Just a matter of stringing together 2 good months of basketball.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
lilfishi22 wrote:Slim Charless wrote:Frank Lee wrote:Nobody is doubting his stats dude… but in the small handful needing him, its not an easy task to load up 48 mil in return, regardless how much need you manufacture. Furthermore, why would we deal him anyways, unless its a blow up. Wishbea has done the ‘all’… we just havent hit the ‘or nothing’ yet.
Quit trying to make your point by arguing mine. We arent trading anybody. You doubt that?
I think the playoffs will decide all. If we phase out and lose in/don't make the play-in then yes, I can see us moving 1 of the Big 3 (Durant). If we actually play up to our ability? We can win it all or at least make it to the Finals. How many other teams have beaten Denver twice this year?
We have the wide lane of possibilities of any team in the league. By far.
Who we trade to? I've mentioned OKC numerous times. I think BW's idea of the Knicks makes sense as well. Aside from them, I can see Atlanta, Orlando and New Orleans as other possibilities for a KD trade, though far less likely obviously.
Once again the playoffs will show all for those teams and ours of course. Gun to my head? Yes, I think 1 of our current starters will not be playing here come Oct. Be that Durant or Nurk or whoever we'll see.
I don't see this at all. At least not this offseason. I don't believe Ishbia is in it for the short term (ie one season window) and any trade involving KD (you already pointed to his stats) is almost certainly going to be a downgrade in talent and I just don't see Ishbia being ok with that. Should also point out KD was his first, signature move as owner of the Phoenix Suns. He's going to exhaust all options/opportunities with this Big 3 before he goes the way of breaking up the team.
I don't think he has any particular loyalty to the big 3 and he's one of those flashy impatient CEO's that want instant results so I don't see him staying put if the team underperforms yet again.
All his moves reek of Isaiah Thomas moves of trading for well known albeit very expensive players and trading away as many draft picks as possible. However, even if Thomas/Ishbia want to trade one of the big 3 I really only think Booker has value due to him being in his prime, Beal is untradeable and KD might still have takers but it would have to be next season before he gets any older.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Stix wrote:Trust me... i've looked into any and all possible scenarios where we could possibly get rid of Beal and none of them are any good. We're stuck.
I'm not worried about moving Beal. He'll be a Phoenix Wizard if we blow it up.
garrick wrote: However, even if Thomas/Ishbia want to trade one of the big 3 I really only think Booker has value due to him being in his prime, Beal is untradeable and KD might still have takers but it would have to be next season before he gets any older.
It's insane to think Durant doesn't have value. He's missed a total of 7 games this season. #4 in the league in PPG with 53/42/85 splits, 28/7/5 with 2 stocks and still a + on defense.
Sure, our all-in move didn't work, but every year there are teams that will do anything to try to win a title. There are far worse ways to spend $100 million than on Kevin Durant - for example, paying Grayson Allen $20 million/season and drowning yourself in luxury taxes.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
We won't/can't move Beal and get anything close to what he provides. I'm not saying 3 guys to take up his salary space couldn't, or someone else, but I just don't see we get the value in return. Despite the bad contract, given our lack of cap space, we were lucky to get a player of his caliber for the shell of Paul and Shamet.
KD has value, but not nearly what we gave up for him. I think that's what Frank was saying. Maybe 2 picks and a few players or 3 not great or protected picks and players, like if he went to NY in the type of deals I brought up.
KD has value, but not nearly what we gave up for him. I think that's what Frank was saying. Maybe 2 picks and a few players or 3 not great or protected picks and players, like if he went to NY in the type of deals I brought up.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Stix wrote:Trust me... i've looked into any and all possible scenarios where we could possibly get rid of Beal and none of them are any good. We're stuck.
I'm not worried about moving Beal. He'll be a Phoenix Wizard if we blow it up.garrick wrote: However, even if Thomas/Ishbia want to trade one of the big 3 I really only think Booker has value due to him being in his prime, Beal is untradeable and KD might still have takers but it would have to be next season before he gets any older.
It's insane to think Durant doesn't have value. He's missed a total of 7 games this season. #4 in the league in PPG with 53/42/85 splits, 28/7/5 with 2 stocks and still a + on defense.
Sure, our all-in move didn't work, but every year there are teams that will do anything to try to win a title. There are far worse ways to spend $100 million than on Kevin Durant - for example, paying Grayson Allen $20 million/season and drowning yourself in luxury taxes.
Of course he has value but very few GM's will give us the kind of deal Ishbia gave the Nets in return.
Father time is undefeated and KD at some point will just drop off a cliff at any point now and really struggle to create his own shot once the lift on his shot goes.
I still see him being able to score close to 20 PPG just on spot up jump shots towards the end of his contract but he won't be putting up LBJ type of numbers I would imagine.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
garrick wrote:ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Stix wrote:Trust me... i've looked into any and all possible scenarios where we could possibly get rid of Beal and none of them are any good. We're stuck.
I'm not worried about moving Beal. He'll be a Phoenix Wizard if we blow it up.garrick wrote: However, even if Thomas/Ishbia want to trade one of the big 3 I really only think Booker has value due to him being in his prime, Beal is untradeable and KD might still have takers but it would have to be next season before he gets any older.
It's insane to think Durant doesn't have value. He's missed a total of 7 games this season. #4 in the league in PPG with 53/42/85 splits, 28/7/5 with 2 stocks and still a + on defense.
Sure, our all-in move didn't work, but every year there are teams that will do anything to try to win a title. There are far worse ways to spend $100 million than on Kevin Durant - for example, paying Grayson Allen $20 million/season and drowning yourself in luxury taxes.
Of course he has value but very few GM's will give us the kind of deal Ishbia gave the Nets in return.
Father time is undefeated and KD at some point will just drop off a cliff at any point now and really struggle to create his own shot once the lift on his shot goes.
I still see him being able to score close to 20 PPG just on spot up jump shots towards the end of his contract but he won't be putting up LBJ type of numbers I would imagine.
I don't get the fascination with the trade package that we gave up for KD.
Mikal and Cam Johnson are doing nothing for the Nets.
Mikal is a 2nd option for them and his overall numbers aren't impressive at all. His percentages are strictly bad and defensively he can't be as good as he was for us because he has a bigger role on offense.
Cam Johnson is seriously overpaid and most Nets fans hate him. He isn't better than Grayson Allen so we replaced him with an upgrade. Similar age, similar role and he has more health problems than Allen.
Crowder has been replaced by O'Neale so we got another upgrade for really low value in the last trade deadline.
It's all about the picks but the idea for us is to be a perennial playoff team (and hopefully a contender) for years to come so those picks will never be in the lottery.
KD is playing amazing basketball on both ends and he is healthy. His value around the league has to be really REALLY high.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Bridges was good for much of the season but has played a lot worse since Dinwiddie was traded and they really don't have a PG because Ben Simmons got injured about the same time.
Cam is shooting 40% from 3 and also has a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. He's playing about as well as he did for us. Bridges is down but you should know he is a very solid player, particularly if you have him as a 3rd option and a glue guy on defense as well as a good locker room and chemistry guy.
KD is awesome but kind of the opposite when it comes to locker room/chemistry guy. He's not really a leader type which is why his teams never go as far as they should except when he joined the championship best record ever Warriors who were already set up and gave up nothing for him.
Cam is shooting 40% from 3 and also has a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. He's playing about as well as he did for us. Bridges is down but you should know he is a very solid player, particularly if you have him as a 3rd option and a glue guy on defense as well as a good locker room and chemistry guy.
KD is awesome but kind of the opposite when it comes to locker room/chemistry guy. He's not really a leader type which is why his teams never go as far as they should except when he joined the championship best record ever Warriors who were already set up and gave up nothing for him.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
bwgood77 wrote:Bridges was good for much of the season but has played a lot worse since Dinwiddie was traded and they really don't have a PG because Ben Simmons got injured about the same time.
Cam is shooting 40% from 3 and also has a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. He's playing about as well as he did for us. Bridges is down but you should know he is a very solid player, particularly if you have him as a 3rd option and a glue guy on defense as well as a good locker room and chemistry guy.
KD is awesome but kind of the opposite when it comes to locker room/chemistry guy. He's not really a leader type which is why his teams never go as far as they should except when he joined the championship best record ever Warriors who were already set up and gave up nothing for him.
2.5 assists and 1 turnover per game is nothing to talk about it. For comparison Grayson Allen averages 3.8 assists and only 1.3 turnovers. And 48% from three against 40% for Cam Johnson.
And he is getting $23.6M per year on his new 4-year contract so his production doesn't match his salary at all. It was different on the Suns because he was on a rookie contract.
And he is 6'8 but plays smaller than his size.
Regarding KD, he leads with the example, he works harder than anyone and that'swell documented. Not a vocal leader at all but everyone around the league says that he is a great teammate.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Bridges was good for much of the season but has played a lot worse since Dinwiddie was traded and they really don't have a PG because Ben Simmons got injured about the same time.
Cam is shooting 40% from 3 and also has a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. He's playing about as well as he did for us. Bridges is down but you should know he is a very solid player, particularly if you have him as a 3rd option and a glue guy on defense as well as a good locker room and chemistry guy.
KD is awesome but kind of the opposite when it comes to locker room/chemistry guy. He's not really a leader type which is why his teams never go as far as they should except when he joined the championship best record ever Warriors who were already set up and gave up nothing for him.
2.5 assists and 1 turnover per game is nothing to talk about it. For comparison Grayson Allen averages 3.8 assists and only 1.3 turnovers. And 48% from three against 40% for Cam Johnson.
And he is getting $23.6M per year on his new 4-year contract so his production doesn't match his salary at all. It was different on the Suns because he was on a rookie contract.
And he is 6'8 but plays smaller than his size.
Regarding KD, he leads with the example, he works harder than anyone and that'swell documented. Not a vocal leader at all but everyone around the league says that he is a great teammate.
as has always been the case, CamJo's problem is health. Until he can demonstrate he can stay on the court throughout a season, he won't get past this ceiling. Grayson isn't worth 24M a year either, but he is closer than Cam.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Bridges was good for much of the season but has played a lot worse since Dinwiddie was traded and they really don't have a PG because Ben Simmons got injured about the same time.
Cam is shooting 40% from 3 and also has a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. He's playing about as well as he did for us. Bridges is down but you should know he is a very solid player, particularly if you have him as a 3rd option and a glue guy on defense as well as a good locker room and chemistry guy.
KD is awesome but kind of the opposite when it comes to locker room/chemistry guy. He's not really a leader type which is why his teams never go as far as they should except when he joined the championship best record ever Warriors who were already set up and gave up nothing for him.
2.5 assists and 1 turnover per game is nothing to talk about it. For comparison Grayson Allen averages 3.8 assists and only 1.3 turnovers. And 48% from three against 40% for Cam Johnson.
And he is getting $23.6M per year on his new 4-year contract so his production doesn't match his salary at all. It was different on the Suns because he was on a rookie contract.
And he is 6'8 but plays smaller than his size.
Regarding KD, he leads with the example, he works harder than anyone and that'swell documented. Not a vocal leader at all but everyone around the league says that he is a great teammate.
Yeah, Cam is overpaid. That is a nice ast/to ratio for Cam and a really nice one for Allen.
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
spanishninja wrote:Saberestar wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Bridges was good for much of the season but has played a lot worse since Dinwiddie was traded and they really don't have a PG because Ben Simmons got injured about the same time.
Cam is shooting 40% from 3 and also has a 2.5/1 ast/to ratio. He's playing about as well as he did for us. Bridges is down but you should know he is a very solid player, particularly if you have him as a 3rd option and a glue guy on defense as well as a good locker room and chemistry guy.
KD is awesome but kind of the opposite when it comes to locker room/chemistry guy. He's not really a leader type which is why his teams never go as far as they should except when he joined the championship best record ever Warriors who were already set up and gave up nothing for him.
2.5 assists and 1 turnover per game is nothing to talk about it. For comparison Grayson Allen averages 3.8 assists and only 1.3 turnovers. And 48% from three against 40% for Cam Johnson.
And he is getting $23.6M per year on his new 4-year contract so his production doesn't match his salary at all. It was different on the Suns because he was on a rookie contract.
And he is 6'8 but plays smaller than his size.
Regarding KD, he leads with the example, he works harder than anyone and that'swell documented. Not a vocal leader at all but everyone around the league says that he is a great teammate.
as has always been the case, CamJo's problem is health. Until he can demonstrate he can stay on the court throughout a season, he won't get past this ceiling. Grayson isn't worth 24M a year either, but he is closer than Cam.
He is right now (Allen), but this is BY FAR his best year. We didn't even want him for Crowder (dumb)...anyway, he has never averaged over 41% from 3 and his best TS% was around 61% a couple times, and this year he is near 70%. I imagine Cam AND Bridges would look amazing with KD, Book and Beal.
But I like Allen and yeah, Cam can't stay healthy. I would rather have Allen, but it's also not like we knew we were getting him when we made that trade. Of course I'd rather have KD and Allen than Mikal and Cam, but long term probably not more than those 2, 4 unprotected 1sts along with a swap and 5 2nds.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
The move would have been to sign and trade CamJo for a PG like Ty Jones. Wrap a draft pick around Shamwow or GrandPa for a PF… and and…
We all can play rewind pretend….
The west is such a meat grinder. We’d better shape up over the next 5-6 games and settle into a more intense mindset. No more excuses.
Crazy though…. How a hard fought playoff run into the second round could somewhat salvage this tumultuous season. A quick exit and youll see buzzards circling
We all can play rewind pretend….
The west is such a meat grinder. We’d better shape up over the next 5-6 games and settle into a more intense mindset. No more excuses.
Crazy though…. How a hard fought playoff run into the second round could somewhat salvage this tumultuous season. A quick exit and youll see buzzards circling
What ? Me Worry ?
Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - The final stretch
I hope we see Rockets/Nuggets or if not Rockets, Kings or Lakers
Clips vs Pelicans
Mavs vs Thunder
Us vs TWolves.
All those matchups would be interesting. Maybe not Rockets/Nuggets quite as much unless Sengun is back.
But I am kind of tired of seeing Mavs/Clips, us/Denver, us/Mavs, us/Clips.
TWolves would be interesting too...we have one of best offenses but they have the best defense. Could we go small and cause problems for them?
Clips vs Pelicans
Mavs vs Thunder
Us vs TWolves.
All those matchups would be interesting. Maybe not Rockets/Nuggets quite as much unless Sengun is back.
But I am kind of tired of seeing Mavs/Clips, us/Denver, us/Mavs, us/Clips.
TWolves would be interesting too...we have one of best offenses but they have the best defense. Could we go small and cause problems for them?