bucks.com: Mo Williams has surgery

[midranger]

Both Europa and I agreed before the season that the team would suck. That's something.

[carmelbrownqueen]

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Wow. Our 8th, 9th and 10th best basketball players came off the bench and played...their roles.

Don't hurt yourself reaching, there, CBQ.

I don't see it as a reach at all. Yes they were our 8th, 9th, and 10th men coming off the bench, but that doesn't mean they are required to come out and play their role without complaining about it. Also, let's not pretend like all NBA players regardless of talent level don't have egos or are just happy to be on a team.. many are not. Many believe they deserve more because of whatever they bring to the floor night in and night out. They aren't just happy to play the game on whatever team gives them the opportunity, they want more. And a fair amount believe they have what it takes to help a team if given the right amount of minutes (including starters minutes) even if they aren't the most talented of players individually.

Let's not forget that there have been a number of players this season in the media complaining about their "role" on the team, and not necessarily performing up to their capabilities because of their unhappiness. For example, Mickael Pietrus campaigned all season to be let go or traded so he could go to Miami or wherever else would give him the most minutes. Jamaal Magloire respectfully complained about his role and wondered about his fit with NJ. Marbury was a distraction in NY because of how Isaiah was using him. JR Smith was confused and somewhat complained about how he has been used on two of his previous teams, including his role in Denver this season (at times). Even David Noel asked for his release from the Bucks because he firmly believed he outplayed our two primary SF's during practices, and was deserving of more minutes than he was getting. Bench guys aren't always the most talented or the guys with the biggest paychecks but they aren't all just happy to go along for the ride and do whatever it takes to make their teams win. They are ego maniacal too.. and they complain about their roles every season in the NBA. This is nothing new. Guys who are really invested like that are guys who buy into the team, the coaching, love their teammates, and are a part of winning organizations.. so its not a reach to say these guys did their part for the "good" of the team.

So back to CV..... He came into this season believing he firmly had the starting job in his back pocket, and that Yi would be coming off the bench as his relief.. When training camp came around and Yi outperformed him and he was subsequently demoted. CV sulked. Ran to his buddy Herb Kohl and derided the coach. Demanded trades behind the scenes and even lightly campaigned publically because he didn't buy into having to come off the bench. Did he ride the bench this season? Absolutely, but never ever did he do it gracefully and because he truly bought into that being the best place for him or the team as a whole.

I know some want to ignore this fact, but we talked about his body language and his poor play for a majority of the season. Before the All Star break many on this board were firmly on the Yi Jianlian train, then once he started to struggle it was said that CV shouldn't have come off the bench in the first place.. even though he was being clearly outplayed by a rookie. He didn't buy into his role (and no I'm not saying he is the only one) and it's erroneous to say that he willing did anything..

[carmelbrownqueen]

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The problem - and CBQ correct me if I'm misinterpreting your point - is that too many of the Bucks placed their egos above the team. I think the three worst culprits this season were Mo, Redd and Villanueva. Mo's ego was way out of control; Redd's ego obviously became a problem and Villanueva thought he should start even though he was outplayed by Skinner last season and by Yi in camp this year. So he spent a lot of time griping behind the scenes and playing like absolute garbage most of the time when he came off the bench.

Every good player has an ego. That in itself isn't a bad thing. But the great ones understand that placing their own interests above the team's produces nothing of substance. The Bucks have yet to figure that out and I think it's one of the big reasons why they have been so bad the past two seasons.

Well stated..

[ReasonablySober]

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I don't see it as a reach at all. Yes they were our 8th, 9th, and 10th men coming off the bench, but that doesn't mean they are required to come out and play their role without complaining about it. Also, let's not pretend like all NBA players regardless of talent level don't have egos or are just happy to be on a team.. many are not. Many believe they deserve more because of whatever they bring to the floor night in and night out. They aren't just happy to play the game on whatever team gives them the opportunity, they want more. And a fair amount believe they have what it takes to help a team if given the right amount of minutes (including starters minutes) even if they aren't the most talented of players individually.

Ivey and Ruffin need to follow orders and accept their role or they would simply never see the court. Sessions needed to be the model of hard worker and team player or his ass would have been shipped off to the NBDL. None of them are talented enough to do anything less than what the coach wanted.

It's the exact same thing we saw with Bell two years ago. He was everyone's favorite because he came in and defended and looked to others. He did so because he didn't want to end up in Europe again and he was smart enough to see that if he played hard he could get a long term contract down the road. Look what happened. He signed that deal and now he looks little like the guy we saw when he first broke in with the Bucks.

Bottom line is the three you mentioned had to be company men or they would have on the bench and/or out of the league.

[Zeus LA]

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Other than CV willingly taking a seat for an unproven and ineffective rookie, what player did anything for the sake of the team?

Bogut played through the hip injury in feb/mar that appeared to affect his game.

[trwi7]

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Bogut played through the hip injury in feb/mar that appeared to affect his game.

IIRC the hip injury only effected Bogut when he had a bad game. At least according to some on here.

[Nowak008]

Heaps of dudes just have tape coz they got a ball on their thumb 2 years ago and just can't play without it for mental reasons. Epi brought up an example of the Celtics (?) years ago where guys played and looked like mummys. Some people just need to think they're OK.

\.

Well that isnt the case with Mo - he is having surgery.

[REDDzone]

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IIRC the hip injury only effected Bogut when he had a bad game. At least according to some on here.

No see I disagree with this Twirly, everyone was saying at the time that his hip pain "magically disappeared" because he started playing well...but nobody ever considered that he started playing well because his hip got better.

You don't remember all the grimacing and holding his hip whenever the play would slow down?

I don't know, that was pre-Bogut quitting that last time, and therefore right in the middle of me being a Bogut homer, so maybe I have selective perception.

[Jez2983]

Well that isnt the case with Mo - he is having surgery.

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I just meant that if he had tape on his hand it didn't necessarily mean he had the injury that required the surgery at that point earlier in the season that you mentioned.

[Nowak008]

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Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I just meant that if he had tape on his hand it didn't necessarily mean he had the injury that required the surgery at that point earlier in the season that you mentioned.

That wasn't the case. After injuring his hand and was wearing a brace Mo said that it was going to require surgery at the end of the season. I believe it was just after training camp.

[Jez2983]

That wasn't the case. After injuring his hand and was wearing a brace Mo said that it was going to require surgery at the end of the season. I believe it was just after training camp.

OK - I don't remember that. As this is the case, I think Mo deserves some props for playing most of the season with this injury. Every time he went for a rebound he could have jarred it. Whats good for Bogut should be good for Mo too.

[icat2000]

Didn't Bogut played every game bar the two he missed for his broken snozz? Mo missed oddles of games ... Nuff said

[midranger]

There are literally dozens of other threads to bash Mo Williams in, or you could always just start another.

To bash any player in his injury thread is completely classless, and I'm honestly surprised that CBQ sunk to that level.

[Nowak008]

There are literally dozens of other threads to bash Mo Williams in, or you could always just start another.

To bash any player in his injury thread is completely classless, and I'm honestly surprised that CBQ sunk to that level.

Really?

[crkone]

There are literally dozens of other threads to bash Mo Williams in, or you could always just start another.

To bash any player in his injury thread is completely classless, and I'm honestly surprised that CBQ sunk to that level.

Ha. There were plenty of people bashing Bogut in his 'Dear Andrew Bogut' injury thread cause they didn't know if he was faking it or the injury came and went.

[icat2000]

There are literally dozens of other threads to bash Mo Williams in, or you could always just start another.

To bash any player in his injury thread is completely classless, and I'm honestly surprised that CBQ sunk to that level.

Ironic coming from you.

[carmelbrownqueen]

There are literally dozens of other threads to bash Mo Williams in, or you could always just start another.

To bash any player in his injury thread is completely classless, and I'm honestly surprised that CBQ sunk to that level.

My initial comment wasn't "bashing" Mo Williams ... the only thing I stated was that it was my hope he wasn't on the team starting in October. So I don't consider that a "classless" act. Also, it's it's interesting the double standards on this board. We have various threads where positive things were being said about other players on this team, and it has turned into a bashing thread (especially when it comes to Michael Redd) and because this discussion about Mo Williams became something more now and only now is this considered "classless" or "sinking to that level". That's completely ridiculous.

Honestly I find that comment completely hypocritical.. you haven't cared in the past why now?

[midranger]

I've never posted anything bashing a guy in his injury thread.

I hate TJ Ford. Hate him. Yet when he got hurt in Toronto I didn't say **** like good riddance. I said it in a lot of other threads, but I wished him the best in his injury thread.

Mo Williams got hurt playing for the team that we love watching. The least you could have said was nothing. A classy act would be to wish him well with his surgery despite how you feel about him as a player, mainly because he's a human being. If you want to be classless, you bash him. That's the route CBQ decided to take from her opening post. Unnecessary and classless. We all know how you feel about Mo Williams the Milwaukee Buck. Mo Williams the human being is undergoing a surgery.

CBQ, it's time for you to take a step back from this board and rejoin reality.

[carmelbrownqueen]

I've never posted anything bashing a guy in his injury thread.

I hate TJ Ford. Hate him. Yet when he got hurt in Toronto I didn't say **** like good riddance. I said it in a lot of other threads, but I wished him the best in his injury thread.

Mo Williams got hurt playing for the team that we love watching. The least you could have said was nothing. A classy act would be to wish him well with his surgery despite how you feel about him as a player, mainly because he's a human being. If you want to be classless, you bash him. That's the route CBQ decided to take from her opening post. Unnecessary and classless. We all know how you feel about Mo Williams the Milwaukee Buck. Mo Williams the human being is undergoing a surgery.

CBQ, it's time for you to take a step back from this board and rejoin reality.

You are such a hypocrite and its beyond ridiculous. It doesn't matter whether you bashed TJ Ford or any other player in their "inury thread" or just a thread showing appreciation for them. Bashing is bashing, nothing in my initial post was bashing. In subsequent posts there after, I did make some statements about how it would be in the best interest of the team if he were no longer a Buck, and I stand by that statement and fail to see that as bashing. I know a few of you are on this mission to rebutt any comment made about Mo that doesn't state he is the best point guard in Bucks history but every comment about Mo isn't bashing. As an example here was my initial comment:

I underlined this sentence in the article:
He is expected to make a full recovery and be ready for training camp in October.

And this was my comment:
Hopefully he won't be here by then..

Nothing about this comment was "classless". I did not state a desire for him not heal from his injury. I did not state that I hoped his surgery was unsuccessful. Or a list of any of the other things I could have said regarding Mo Williams. I made a statement about Mo hopefully not being here in October..and I am entitled to that thought, and also to state it because it had nothing whatsoever to do with his injury.

Unfortunately, your insistence on making personal attacks because you don't like what I posted showed less class than anything stated in this thread. It's disappointing and I am hopeful that you will yourself take a long break from the boards.

[midranger]

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