Reality check and Laker love

[greenbeans]

greatttt. . why did i even start again??

what do you think Doc is known for?? certainly not his x's and o's, its his motivation and chemistry-building. like how KG and everyone else talks all the time about him??
MAYBE, people think of Doc the way they thought of Phil before he had MJ in his stable. . hmmmm, impossible!!!

[CantStop]

greatttt. . why did i even start again??

what do you think Doc is known for?? certainly not his x's and o's, its his motivation and chemistry-building. like how KG and everyone else talks all the time about him??
MAYBE, people think of Doc the way they thought of Phil before he had MJ in his stable. . hmmmm, impossible!!!

But Doc is a terrible coach. It's a well known fact. Replace Doc with Phil and the Celts sweep t'ill the finals.

[greenbeans]

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But Doc is a terrible coach. It's a well known fact. Replace Doc with Phil and the Celts sweep t'ill the finals.

where are the links for facts?? reported

[RickyDizzle]

KG and Odom have matched up 24 times. It's a bit of a small sample size, but generally after playing each other 24 times I think you can get a pretty good idea of how two players fare against each other.

The most Odom has ever scored on KG is 24 points. KG has dropped 20+ in 14 of those games, and has 10+ rebounds 14 times as well. Odom has outscored KG just 4 times in their matchups, and outrebounded KG just 6 times in 24. I think it's pretty safe to say KG dominates Odom.

KG's clearly the better player, I wasn't arguing that. I would expect his numbers to be better than Odom's.

I was just saying its hard to accurately measure KG's effect on Odom with a small sample size (24 games).

Dizzy

[RayAllen#34]

I like Kobe as a player. I always argued that he was a top player. Back when people were saying he really wasn't very good and he was just a ball hog I argued for his superiority.

But it's swung TOO FAR around now IMHO. He is a LITTLE better then the very top guards in the league. That's it. The margin isn't nearly as great at the media would have you believe.

People are claiming he is as good as Jordan. Well this is the chance to prove it I think. I kind of doubt he can - as he if WAS that good they would have been in contention all those other years he was without Shaq in LA..

I remember Jordan and what people seem to forget is not only was he a great scorer he was flat out THE BEST defensive player in the game. I shudder to think what he would have done to PP defensively.

Truth is though I know PP is relieved not to be covered by Lebron..

Pete

I hate when people say he's as good as Jordan, mainly because he's not.
All you have to do to realize this is compare their career achievements and it becomes very clear and obvious. 9 time all defense, 10 time first team nba, 6 time nba champion, 5 time NBA regular season mvp, 6 time NBA finals mvp (which he was given because apparently 'it was his time' and 'paul has many more opportunities and more time to get his'), 30ppg career scoring average (that includes his wizard years), 1 time defensive player of the year, and this was all achieved during only 10 or 11 years as a bull. Kobe has 2 scoring titles? 1 mvp? 5 time first team nba, 6 time first team defense, no finals mvp. And the majority of Jordan's scoring occurred before the nba softened up their rules to make it easier to score.

[jfs1000d]

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I hate when people say he's as good as Jordan, mainly because he's not.
All you have to do to realize this is compare their career achievements and it becomes very clear and obvious. 9 time all defense, 10 time first team nba, 6 time nba champion, 5 time NBA regular season mvp, 6 time NBA finals mvp (which he was given because apparently 'it was his time' and 'paul has many more opportunities and more time to get his'), 30ppg career scoring average (that includes his wizard years), 1 time defensive player of the year, and this was all achieved during only 10 or 11 years as a bull. Kobe has 2 scoring titles? 1 mvp? 5 time first team nba, 6 time first team defense, no finals mvp. And the majority of Jordan's scoring occurred before the nba softened up their rules to make it easier to score.

Oh my lord. Flawless victory!

Kobe ain't jordan, and the lake show has no scottie pippen. This is a toos up series.

[demcanes26]

I am astounded by the national medias love of Kobe and the Lakers. Surely, the Lakers are good enough to win, won't dispute that, but has a team the celtics' caliber ever been this underrated?

Take a look at Hollinger's analysis. He picked the Lakers, and now when he breaks it down and THINKS about it, he makes a case for the celtics.

Here are some things that bother me:

Celtics won 66 games this season, with one of the top defenses in the history of the NBA, and a margin of victory of about 10 points. They have two sure fire HOFs in their prime in Paul Pierce (WHO LA CAN't GUARD) and one of the more unique PFs in the history of the game.

Detroit is better than any team in the West other than LA.

I watched the Ric Bucher take on the finals and I don't get it. This guy doesn't watch hoops. Celts don't have a Kobe stopper, so the celts can't win?. Kobe going to average 45 a game or something?

The matchups are in the Lakers' favor? Really?

Who guards Pierce?

Lakers fans keep saying the celts d isn't better than San Antonio's. Umm, yes it is. San Antonio is aging and Duncan doesn't have the range KG does. They don't have physical play or length like the celts when perk is in there. Rondo is much better on the ball than Parker.

More importantly, instead of a hurt manu and a non-scoring threat at the 2 and 3 in Bowen, the celts have two players who can go for 30 any night with ease.

Who guards Pierce and Allen, and who prevents Rondo from getting to the basket? This is a matchup nightmare for the Lakers.

Is this Laker juggernaut the one who trailed by 20 and 17 at home in games 1 and 5 before rallying?

Take a look at KGs career stats against Gasol. YIKES!

This is all because the celts went 7 games with atlanta (though look at the blowouts at home) and cleveland. Boston was impressive against detroit and in point of fact, the celtics haven't been down in a series.

Kobe isn't Michael, and secondly, there is no Scottie Pippen for the Lakers.

Kobe is great, but he is slowly becoming overrated. He isn't an icon. He is a the MVP and best player in the game. But, Pierce an KG belong out on that floor with him.

People are vastly underrating how good KG and Pierce are.

I think you are overrating Ray Allen. Ray Allen had to score 29, 25, and 19 points to get to a 17 pt avg in the series against the Pistons.

Do you really expect him to average that when he is his team 3rd options, and has to guard Kobe Bryant. History tells us that guards start to fade when they reach 32. Ray shot the lowest of his carreer this season, and he has been a 40% shooter in this playoffs. Y? Ray Allen is losing his legs.

I think KG and Paul Pierce are studs. I have watch every Celtic playoff series and those guys have that dog in them. I think Ray Allen will let you guys down.

[the sea duck]

another thing... the lakers went 2-4 this year against the celtics playoff opponents including losing in atlanta and losing twice to cleveland

and why is it that the regular season doesn't matter when talking about the celtics 66 wins, but it does matter when mentioning the 37 wins of atlanta, the 47 wins of cleveland, and the 50+ wins of denver and utah?

[RickyDizzle]

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I think you are overrating Ray Allen. Ray Allen had to score 29, 25, and 19 points to get to a 17 pt avg in the series against the Pistons.

Do you really expect him to average that when he is his team 3rd options, and has to guard Kobe Bryant. History tells us that guards start to fade when they reach 32. Ray shot the lowest of his carreer this season, and he has been a 40% shooter in this playoffs. Y? Ray Allen is losing his legs.

I think KG and Paul Pierce are studs. I have watch every Celtic playoff series and those guys have that dog in them. I think Ray Allen will let you guys down.

Him shooting the lowest percentage in his career during the regular season was a result of a higher 3 pt: 2 pt ratio, not poor shooting or
losing his legs'.

He shot 2's and 3's at a higher clip then last year when he averaged 26 ppg, this year 3's just made up a much larger percentage of his shot attempts.

-Dizzy

[UGA Hayes]

I was watching ESPN yesterday and Tim Legler brought a pretty good point about how we seem to almost be better against the less physical western team. If you look at the playoffs so far two things have bothered as. Extreme athleticism (Josh Smith's of the world) and really physical play (whole Cleveland series, parts of Detroit series). I think we are just structured to play better against those teams b/c instead of trying to play the physical game we can rely on how good we are on help defense.

[demcanes26]

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Him shooting the lowest percentage in his career during the regular season was a result of a higher 3 pt: 2 pt ratio, not poor shooting or
losing his legs'.

He shot 2's and 3's at a higher clip then last year when he averaged 26 ppg, this year 3's just made up a much larger percentage of his shot attempts.

-Dizzy

And that is going to continue. He has miss a TON of WIDE OPEN 2 point shots as well. Let's be honest he only played well in 3 of the 6 games against the Pistons. And he was AWFUL against the Cavs. Ray Allen is breaking down right in front of your eyes. And I hope the Celtics trade him this summer so they can increase their championship window.

[RickyDizzle]

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And that is going to continue. He has miss a TON of WIDE OPEN 2 point shots as well. Let's be honest he only played well in 3 of the 6 games against the Pistons. And he was AWFUL against the Cavs. Ray Allen is breaking down right in front of your eyes. And I hope the Celtics trade him this summer so they can increase their championship window.

I dont think you read what I wrote, he is shooting both 3's and 2's at a HIGHER percentage then he did last year when he scored 26 ppg.

The fact that he is shooting more 3 pointers:2 pointers is a result of the celtics offense and using him as a complimentary player instead of the focal point... bascially the offense isnt running through him so he is taking lots of 3's as a result of kickouts, but he is making a HIGHER percentage of those 3's then last year.

I am talking about the regular season and not the playoffs. I'll admit he has played poorly for mos tof the playoffs. But the fact that he was getting good at the end of the detroit series tells me his slump was mental and not physical...hopefully he continues to play well throughout the finals.

-Dizzy

[Gomes3PC]

I fully expect Pierce to drop about 25 a game against the Lakers defense. Garnett will pour in another 20. If Ray Allen can give us 18-19 PPG, which is hardly a stretch, that'll be about 65 PPG from our Big Three. Add in 16-20 points from Rondo/Perk, and another 20 from the bench (their playoff average), and that's plenty of points to hang with the Lakers.

[CantStop]

I fully expect Pierce to drop about 25 a game against the Lakers defense. Garnett will pour in another 20. If Ray Allen can give us 18-19 PPG, which is hardly a stretch, that'll be about 65 PPG from our Big Three. Add in 16-20 points from Rondo/Perk, and another 20 from the bench (their playoff average), and that's plenty of points to hang with the Lakers.

I expect Kobe to drop 33 ppg against the Celts. Pau will pour 20, Odom with 15 ppg and around 22 ppg from Fish and Vlad. About 68 ppg from the real big 3.

[tdfoss]

Take a look at the numbers Odom has put up against Garnett:

14.3 PPG, 7.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 3.5 TO/G, 41.1% FG

Career:
15.6 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 4.4 APG, 2.9 TO/G, 46% FG

Pretty sure Garnett bothers Odom quite a bit.

I'm pretty sure the lower scoring of 1.5 pts per game would not qualify as "bothers". Odom will not score as much agaisnt KG, but if it's only 1.5 pts less per game then I like the Lakers chances.

[ShowtimeFan]

I am reasonbly sure the Lakers will lose tonight, seriously, they may hope to make some adjustments and win game two, but even that is going to be a stretch.

Lakers have plenty of footage from the Celtics 8 play-off loses to go over and try and emulate, but if they can't get make a ding in the Celtic defence, then they better hope their 3-point shooting is dead on..

From the Media's point of view, I see this match-up much like when Tyson or Ali were in their primes, they love to say the opponent has a chance and talk up all their good points, but in the end the better man (or Team in this instance) usually wins.

There is no way after 78 wins this year, the Celtics should be considered an underdog, they have lead the leauge for wire to wire, they have beat every team in front of them, so why doubt them now?

And with their recent success on the road, it would not surprise me for the Celts to win it in five games...

And as far as man-to-man match-ups, the Kobe-Allen matchup is the only one I see the Lakers having a clear-cut advantage on, but I can tell you that Ray outscored Kobe more than once when he was on the Sonics...

So Laker Love may be one thing, but Laker Logic is closer to fact...

[Celts09]

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I expect Kobe to drop 33 ppg against the Celts. Pau will pour 20, Odom with 15 ppg and around 22 ppg from Fish and Vlad. About 68 ppg from the real big 3.

"the real big 3" only had 55, so i guess ur wrong!

and KG Ray and Paul combined for 65 points!

[meatball sub]

CantStop had the most worthless 33 posts I've ever seen from a new member. What a **** tool...

[GuyClinch]

And with their recent success on the road, it would not surprise me for the Celts to win it in five games...

Am I reading this right? One loss and your jumping off your teams bandwagon? Gee. I can see where Bill Simmons gets it from..

Pete