A question on TJ Ford's Injury this year

Post #1 » by **count55** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:27 am

Hello. Pacer fan here.

I have a question regarding the injury that TJ Ford suffered in Atlanta that caused him to miss 24 games. Essentially, was it determined that either the injury itself or the severity of the injury were caused and/or exascerbated by TJ's Spinal Stenosis?

In discussions the I've seen or been involved in, it has always been assumed that the injury was the same or similar to the one suffered his rookie year, and that it was reflective of health issues specific to TJ. However, it was a pretty nasty hit and fall. It's not out of the realm of possibility that other players in the same position could have suffered an injury of some sort.

The answer could go a long way to helping me understand the risk the Pacers have just taken in TJ.

Thanks,

J Dilla · Post #2 » by **J Dilla** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:37 am

It was a neck injury. All I know is he stayed away from the game because of psychological issues, work on his falls, and build muscles around his neck. According to the newspapers, he felt the effects for a day, the rest of the time off was for working with John Lucas.

Another Horford type of blow to his head can probably end his career, and probably anyone elses. Theres a youtube interview of his, you can listen to it. He said that when you are paralyzed on the court, you start thinking of retirement or something along those lines.

from24ft · Post #3 » by **from24ft** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:39 am

Yes. The fall definitely aggravated TJ's Spinal Stenosis. He mentioned that he had numbness in parts of his body that lasted 24 hours. He seemed normal a few days later, however the Raptors did not want to taken any chances and wanted a multi opinion examination and sufficient time for TJ and his family to consider the situation.

It wasn't as bad as his injury with the Bucks, but it was still a concern for all involved.

Demon · Post #4 » by **Demon** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:40 am

I think it was definitely a mix of the two. Not everyone can take a hit like that but it's safe to assume T.J.'s condition may have added another dimension to it. I really think a lot of what he experienced that night was his own fear after the initial impact of the hit and fall, which is understandable. He was probably re-living the episode in Minnesota from his Milwaukee days and thought it'd result in something different. However, he was at the ACC the night after for the Raps game and while he wasn't his usual self, it was a great sign.

T.J. is in the exact same physical condition today as he was when Toronto acquired him two years ago. He's at no greater risk than before, but the risk still exists that he's one awkward fall away from retirement. I guess the same could be said for any player in the league at the right angle but T.J.'s condition makes it worse. I wouldn't worry about it too much, though. In T.J.'s time here in Toronto, it took some very awkward falls and freak accidents for him to miss time (I'm thinking Dallas when someone fell on his back, the 2007 playoffs when Vince fell on his back, the episode in December when Horford smacked him over the head from behind) so just hope this cat really has nine lives.

tylrrr · Post #5 » by **tylrrr** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:40 am

It was a freak accident but his spinal condition meant that extra care hard to be taken to make sure he was strong enough to withstand future hits and continue to play his style of basketball. I don't think it's an especially huge risk to take on for the Pacers, because like I said, it was definitely a freak accident.

Nothingface · Post #6 » by **Nothingface** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:40 am

I don't think his "stingers" are really that related to his condition. He lost heart for a while (got scared)...

I expect him to have a long career.

gangstaff · Post #7 » by **gangstaff** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:43 am

In Atlanta, TJ got hammered on the forehead by Horford's forearm. This snapped his neck back, and he then crashed hard to the floor with his head slamming into the court. IMHO, anyone would have been injured (concussion) by the bump he took regardless of his condition. He did have numbness after the fall which was why he was stretchered off and out of action for a bit. However, he missed more games due to mentally not being ready to return than from the actual physical injury (or so it seemed).

TJ's a strange case. We were told when we acquired him that since his surgery, he is no more prone to neck injuries, stingers, paralyzation than anyone else...but that is obviously false. However he's not fragile, it is only when he takes a major whallop that he seems to suffer from the stingers.

I think the biggest worry is that any other semi-major injury like the one in Atlanta will end his career simply because he will be too scared to step onto a court again, and I wouldn't blame him one bit.

But the odds are just as good to have him stay healthy and play like a top 10 PG. Hopefully he and Augustine establish a pecking order so your board doesn't go through the crap ours did.

tylrrr · Post #8 » by **tylrrr** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:48 am

But the odds are just as good to have him stay healthy and play like a top 10 PG. Hopefully he and Augustine establish a pecking order so your board doesn't go through the crap ours did.

Augustine is a Bobcat?

Post #9 » by **count55** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:50 am

Thanks for all the input, it helps a lot.

BTW...we didn't get Augustin...we ended up with Jarrett Jack as our backup PG due to the Draft Day trade.

beno · Post #10 » by **beno** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 12:51 am

the only way they can prevent this is change tj's game. he is vulnerable to those types of injuries because of the way he plays. he faces big guys in the post when driving. one more severe injury and he could be paralyzed.

from24ft · Post #11 » by **from24ft** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:03 am

beno wrote:the only way they can prevent this is change tj's game. he is vulnerable to those types of injuries because of the way he plays. he faces big guys in the post when driving. one more severe injury and he could be paralyzed.

That said, he has taken a lot of falls and sprung to his feet ready for more action.

I would say that any one that gets smacked while in the air and does not land on their feet but instead their back with the head and neck ricocheting of the floor risks being paralyzed... the fact that he was able to walk a few days later says a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaHETP50ZVA

I would say that I have seen TJ fall many times and there has never been an issue, we never held our breath, this was very unexpected to us all. Once you see him play you will realize that he is far from fragile.

AndreaBustani · Post #12 » by **AndreaBustani** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:06 am

Horford incident was a freak accident, it was more precaution than anyhting else while he was out for long

Demon · Post #13 » by **Demon** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:07 am

T.J. is a warrior. He has a swagger that you wouldn't expect from a guy his size and it takes awkward, freak hits for him to stay down. He usually pops up very quickly even though some people around him become a little alarmed and look at him a second longer to make sure he's okay. Fragile is not a word that should be used to describe him. After that ugly hit, he was walking early the next day and he probably could've that same night if not for precautionary reasons as they ran their tests. He walked into the ACC during the game and received a standing ovation from the crowd, which he stood up for and acknowledged.

asif9t9 · Post #14 » by **asif9t9** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:18 am

Get used to hearing about stingers. Not something you shake off. But rather something which would cause TJ to miss significant time. I've only ever heard of TJ with stingers.

Post #15 » by **count55** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:25 am

asif9t9 wrote:Get used to hearing about stingers. Not something you shake off. But rather something which would cause TJ to miss significant time. I've only ever heard of TJ with stingers.

It's a lot more common in Football. I've had a stinger since I was 14 (sadly, that's 28 years), and it's painful, but it comes and goes. Mine is located just under my left shoulder blade and generally affects my range of motion on my left arm and the swivel of my head neck. When it acts up, it usually lasts for a day or so. It's more limiting than debilitating. In other words, it affects my range of motion by creating a great deal of pain. I can lift my arm or turn my head as far as I normally do, if I'm willing to put up with that guy stabbing me in the back with the really sharp knife.

Raptors90102 · Post #16 » by **Raptors90102** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:33 am

TJ? who TJ?

Jokes aside, he'll be fine, don't worry. We traded him more for his unhappiness than his injury IMO

dirtybird · Post #17 » by **dirtybird** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:35 am

The thing with the stingers is that TJ doesn't need a lot of contact to get one. Sometimes the hits can be quite innocuous and he'll still get one (e.g. Josh Howard's hit).

I should probably clarify that spinal stenosis is the medical condition that TJ grew up with. It wasn't caused by any injury, but makes him more susceptible to getting injured.

augustine · Post #18 » by **augustine** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:50 am

TJ has grit, but I think he needs to change his game a little. He started to at the end of the year. Something as simple as raising his knee when he jumps on a drive, so that he has some protection, would help a lot. He should be fine.

gniewek · Post #19 » by **gniewek** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 1:49 pm

It's a lot more common in Football. I've had a stinger since I was 14 (sadly, that's 28 years), and it's painful, but it comes and goes. Mine is located just under my left shoulder blade and generally affects my range of motion on my left arm and the swivel of my head neck. When it acts up, it usually lasts for a day or so. It's more limiting than debilitating. In other words, it affects my range of motion by creating a great deal of pain. I can lift my arm or turn my head as far as I normally do, if I'm willing to put up with that guy stabbing me in the back with the really sharp knife.

That sounds horrible... :eek2:

gcsw · Post #20 » by **gcsw** » Wed Jul 2, 2008 4:10 pm

count55 wrote:Hello. Pacer fan here.

I have a question regarding the injury that TJ Ford suffered in Atlanta that caused him to miss 24 games. Essentially, was it determined that either the injury itself or the severity of the injury were caused and/or exascerbated by TJ's Spinal Stenosis?

In discussions the I've seen or been involved in, it has always been assumed that the injury was the same or similar to the one suffered his rookie year, and that it was reflective of health issues specific to TJ. However, it was a pretty nasty hit and fall. It's not out of the realm of possibility that other players in the same position could have suffered an injury of some sort.

The answer could go a long way to helping me understand the risk the Pacers have just taken in TJ.

Thanks,

It wasn't really an 'injury'. It was more of a psychological thing.