A slightly unorthodox offseason plan

[TheUrbanZealot]

After perusing this thread, I've found a few items rather questionable. Among them:

- the apparent man love for Adam Dunn.

Please tell me how a career .247 hitter that strikes out 1 out of every 3 at-bats (more than Richie Sexson, who is a career .261 hitter mind you) should be signed to play in a PITCHERS park where power is obviously not a big factor? Dunn is essentially the reincarnate of Sexson, but WORSE. He in no way shape or form deserves a 5 yr 100 million dollar deal just because he can hit 40 home runs. I am very very curious why so many people want him for such a big contract? I'd rather deal with Wlad Balentien who should hit for a similar average and over 30 home runs, with about 1/30th the contract.

- the notion that shoring up our defense by trading for weak-hitting defensive players would help

By all accounts, the Mariners defense is NOT why they are going to lose 100 games this year. The reason the Mariners are going to lose 100 games is because of absolutely inept hitting and a very poor bottom 3 rotation. If anything, we should be trading to shore up our OFFENSE, the problem is there is no one we have on our ML roster outside of Ichiro and Ibanez that is really worth trading for. As far the bottom 3, remember, Batista and Silva have 2 of the worst ERA's (I think Batista actually has the worst) amongst starters in the MLB.


- the notion we can trade overpaid players for anything more than a bottle of Gatorade

We are in a very rough rough ROUGH position. Our main trading chips are all past 30. The positions that we should be underpaying we are overpaying, and the positions we are overpaying we are OVER OVER paying. We have a weak hitting 3rd basemen getting over 10 million a year. We have a singles hitting leadoff hitter who, with all due respect to him and his consistency, is primarily worth the money he is for marketing purposes. We have a backup catcher getting paid 8 million a year! We have an absolutely horrible 4th starter getting paid 12 million a year!!!!! I mean, your 4th starter should be a prospect, or at least a light paid vet, but 12 million on a #4? Not to mention 8-9 million on a #5 in Batista? I mean wow...


The trades I've read on this thread are for the most part not only unrealistic, but I really don't see what they do to regenerate the offense. What''s the point in "slightly" improving defense if you are going to have an even worse offense anyways? What's the point of having Ichiro get on base 35% of the time if you have the 2nd coming of Richie Sexson striking out with him on? I mean this team needs a complete and total makeover, Florida Marlins style.


- the notion that Ibanez will settle a paltry 5 million a year

Ibanez will pull a Jose Guillen so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. There is NO way Ibanez is settling for 5 mill, even at his age. His production has been better in his latter years and he keeps himself up. He's relatively consistent, and there are games where he just absolutely carries the team. He will definitely sign for more than 5 million, closeer to a 10 million per deal. I don't see any incentive for him to sign with the Mariners, either.



I will say this:
- Morrow should be our closer. I don't want to risk his arm as a starter, and we could just pencil him there for the next 10 years, easily.
- I agree that Yuniesky should be replaced, but he isn't as bad as people make him out to be on here
- Jose Lopez I think should stay. He's on pace to get close to 200 hits and we need all of the offense that we can get. It's not like he's a horrid defender anyways, and even if he was, that defense is not having enough of an impact negatively to justify replacing him
- Clement needs to be the full time catcher.
- Balentien needs to start, he can hit 30+ homers a year
- We should not overpay any free agent that hasn't shown a propensity towards consistent ALL around produciton. Meaning- no fluke year players that have 1 good year and then BAM (hello Beltre)...

[Basketball Jesus]

After perusing this thread, I've found a few items rather questionable. Among them:

- the apparent man love for Adam Dunn.

Please tell me how a career .247 hitter that strikes out 1 out of every 3 at-bats (more than Richie Sexson, who is a career .261 hitter mind you) should be signed to play in a PITCHERS park where power is obviously not a big factor? Dunn is essentially the reincarnate of Sexson, but WORSE.

Adam Dunn career: .247/.380/.519
Richie Sexson career: .261/.344/.507

Which of these numbers are most important? (Hint: the ones I bolded are the most important)

Dunn is a much better player than Sexson. He makes less outs, hits for more power, and can actually play passable defense (at an outfield position no less). Yeah, Safeco is less of a hitters’ haven than the GAB but, even then so, having Dunn on this team would be demonstrably better than having Sexson on this team.

He in no way shape or form deserves a 5 yr 100 million dollar deal just because he can hit 40 home runs.

He probably isn’t but free agency is an extremely inefficient way at acquiring talent and, more importantly, baseball is awash with more cash than ever before, meaning $100 million isn’t the same as it was ten years ago.

I am very very curious why so many people want him for such a big contract? I'd rather deal with Wlad Balentien who should hit for a similar average and over 30 home runs, with about 1/30th the contract.

Good point, although I doubt anybody is projecting Balentien to hit thirty any time soon.

- the notion that shoring up our defense by trading for weak-hitting defensive players would help

By all accounts, the Mariners defense is NOT why they are going to lose 100 games this year. The reason the Mariners are going to lose 100 games is because of absolutely inept hitting and a very poor bottom 3 rotation. If anything, we should be trading to shore up our OFFENSE, the problem is there is no one we have on our ML roster outside of Ichiro and Ibanez that is really worth trading for. As far the bottom 3, remember, Batista and Silva have 2 of the worst ERA's (I think Batista actually has the worst) amongst starters in the MLB.

Depending on your tastes, the Mariners rank at, or near, the bottom of every defensive metric out there. While the absolute value of defense is debatable, what isn’t debatable is that the Mariners have two extreme groundballers (Felix, Silva) and two contact-heavy pitchers (Washburn and Batista). They see a large amount of balls in play. And when a team sucks defensively at almost every position – Beltre and Ichiro excluded – defense plays an important factor in their success.

Most of these deals being proposed aren’t defensive-minded, aside from ones centered on replacing Yuni Betancourt, so I don’t really know what you’re talking about. Replacing Betancourt with a similar bat but infinitely better glove does more for this team than trading to “shore up offense”. And it’s SS; unless you think the team can trade for someone like JJ Hardy or Michael Young (which isn’t going to happen), you’re not going to get a significant upgrade at that position.

The trades I've read on this thread are for the most part not only unrealistic, but I really don't see what they do to regenerate the offense. What''s the point in "slightly" improving defense if you are going to have an even worse offense anyways? What's the point of having Ichiro get on base 35% of the time if you have the 2nd coming of Richie Sexson striking out with him on? I mean this team needs a complete and total makeover, Florida Marlins style.

Wow. First of all, exchanging Betancourt for, well, anybody is not a slight improvement. And, as I mentioned before, nobody else has proposed strict-defensive-upgrade trades. Second, strikeouts are irrelevant. Third, this team has already made marked improvements in offense by jettisoning Vidro and Sexson. Fourth, I’m pretty sure Adam Dunn would be improving offense. Fifth, Florida Marlins-style makeovers only happen when you have a good deal of young, talented, cost-controlled players at arb rates. The Mariners have Jeff Clement and Wladimir Balentien. Remember your comment about teams not wanting to take on big contracts for anything other than Gatorade?

- the notion that Ibanez will settle a paltry 5 million a year

Ibanez will pull a Jose Guillen so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. There is NO way Ibanez is settling for 5 mill, even at his age. His production has been better in his latter years and he keeps himself up. He's relatively consistent, and there are games where he just absolutely carries the team. He will definitely sign for more than 5 million, closeer to a 10 million per deal. I don't see any incentive for him to sign with the Mariners, either.

I will bet that no team would be willing to dole out $10 million for a 35-year-old hitter that can only play DH effectively.

- I agree that Yuniesky should be replaced, but he isn't as bad as people make him out to be on here

He’s terrible. You will be hard-pressed to find anybody that will agree with you on this point.

- Balentien needs to start, he can hit 30+ homers a year

He can?

[Sweezo]

Florida Marlins style makeover? What? I thought we were but one Bedard away from contending? Don't the Marlins actually value young talent and not trade away budding young stars for overpriced vets?

[Ex-hippie]

- the apparent man love for Adam Dunn.

Please tell me how a career .247 hitter that strikes out 1 out of every 3 at-bats (more than Richie Sexson, who is a career .261 hitter mind you) should be signed to play in a PITCHERS park where power is obviously not a big factor? Dunn is essentially the reincarnate of Sexson, but WORSE.

This is a conversation we've had with you about 2,391 times, and you have yet to show any indication that you can be reasoned with on this point. Get into the 21st century and get over your silly fascination with batting average.

By all accounts, the Mariners defense is NOT why they are going to lose 100 games this year. The reason the Mariners are going to lose 100 games is because of absolutely inept hitting and a very poor bottom 3 rotation.

Again: you're not listening. By all accounts, the defense is a BIG reason why they are going to lose 100 games this year, because it is a BIG reason why Silva and Washburn are struggling. This is demonstrable and measurable. Have an open minde, please.

- the notion we can trade overpaid players for anything more than a bottle of Gatorade

There isn't a single trade in this thread in which a player with a true albatross contract is proposed to be traded for anything more than that, unless the team picks up a huge piece of the player's salary. This is business 101.

We are in a very rough rough ROUGH position. Our main trading chips are all past 30. The positions that we should be underpaying we are overpaying, and the positions we are overpaying we are OVER OVER paying. We have a weak hitting 3rd basemen getting over 10 million a year.

No, we have a solid hitting third baseman who plays Gold Glove caliber defense with an expiring contract worth over $10 million a year. I don't know why you don't understand this.

- the notion that Ibanez will settle a paltry 5 million a year

Sure, there's no reason to believe Ibanez will settle for $5 million a year in Seattle... well, other than those $5 million per year contract he repeatedly signs, year after year, which were bargains then but approximately his market value now.

Ibanez will pull a Jose Guillen so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. There is NO way Ibanez is settling for 5 mill, even at his age. His production has been better in his latter years and he keeps himself up.

No, it has not. You can look this stuff up, you know.

He's relatively consistent, and there are games where he just absolutely carries the team. He will definitely sign for more than 5 million, closeer to a 10 million per deal. I don't see any incentive for him to sign with the Mariners, either.

Unlike those last several contracts in a row he's signed with the M's.

- I agree that Yuniesky should be replaced, but he isn't as bad as people make him out to be on here

Wrong yet again. He is that bad. He would be the worst player in the Major Leagues this year, were it not for Andruw Jones.

- Jose Lopez I think should stay.
...
- Clement needs to be the full time catcher.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MARK THIS DAY ON YOUR CALENDARS! URBAN ZEALOT WAS RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING!

Urban Zealot, you know why people have such issues with you on these forums and accuse you of trolling? It's not just your contrarian nature. We're all free to disagree. It's partly because of what appears to be a mocking, attacking nature. That's not going to win you many friends. But mainly it's because you are completely and utterly wrong, demonstrating a complete failure in reasoning, a complete lack of understanding about how sports and business work. You do this so consistently, it's amazing. You have to make some kind of special effort to be wrong such a high percentage of the time. And you do it while not showing any indication that your thinking has progressed in any meaningful way -- not only being wrong, but stubbornly being wrong in the exact same ways, time and again. In two months you'll be posting in some other thread criticizing the low batting average of Dunn or some other hitter having a 40-homer, 100-walk season, and once again you'll be wrong.