Official Trade Thread VII: Visitors please post trades HERE!

[JordanL]

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

While I agree Bosh is overrated, I can't believe you'd honestly expect to get him for all your bad contracts and a draft pick.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Jamison plus the pick at 3 or below is fair for Bosh. The trade proposed by the Raps fan is absurd.

[BigA]

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

While I agree Bosh is overrated, I can't believe you'd honestly expect to get him for all your bad contracts and a draft pick.

But the point is if the Wizards get the #1 pick they have no need for Bosh, right?

[JordanL]

If the Wizards land the #2 or #1 pick, then it's the pick plus Songaila + Stevenson + James (filler contracts).

While I agree Bosh is overrated, I can't believe you'd honestly expect to get him for all your bad contracts and a draft pick.

But the point is if the Wizards get the #1 pick they have no need for Bosh, right?

No, but not because of the value of Bosh... that's a team need thing.

Portland has lots of similar situations. We don't really have a need for some players, so some top teir talent would garner very conservative results from Portland. That doesn't mean I'd actually expect the trade to happen though.

I don't think Bosh on Washington is a good fit in any situation, but Songaila + Stevenson + James is SO MUCH negative value for Toronto that it's a ridiculous offer.

I was just kind of curious if nate was serious.

[nate33]

I'm dead serious.

Who would YOU rather have? Blake Griffin at $5M a year, or Chris Bosh at $20M a year?

If you don't like it. Fine. Keep Bosh for one more year and watch him walk for nothing. Or trade him for Noah and Deng or something like that. Nobody is putting a gun to your head.

[JordanL]

I'm dead serious.

Who would YOU rather have? Blake Griffin at $5M a year, or Chris Bosh at $20M a year?

If you don't like it. Fine. Keep Bosh for one more year and watch him walk for nothing. Or trade him for Noah and Deng or something like that. Nobody is putting a gun to your head.

I'm a Portland fan, not a Toronto fan, who gave the same speil to them about Lamarcus Aldridge for Bosh.

But I'd rather pay Bosh $20 million, then pay Songaila, Stevenson and James what they're owed.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I kinda agree with nate here. His proposal is obviously skewed toward the Wizards, but he makes an excellent point about bargaining. Holding the #1 pick, the Wizards would have considerable negotiating power. Griffin is likely to be a very good pro from the beginning of his career, and he's going to do it for 75% less money than Bosh will be getting. It might not be comparable production to Bosh -- at least at the outset -- but rookie scale contracts are the best bargains in the NBA. The contracts Nate's talking about sending to Toronto aren't onerous -- Stevenson and Songaila both have fairly small deals, and James has a contract that expires in 2010.

In Nate's deal, Toronto gets Griffin, financial savings, and a serviceable bench guy (Songaila). The Wiz get Bosh and some increased roster flexibility.

[nate33]

But I'd rather pay Bosh $20 million, then pay Songaila, Stevenson and James what they're owed.

That's a reasonable argument if Songaila, Stevenson and James were locked into long term contracts, but they're not.

Let's assume for argument's sake that Songaila, Stevenson and James are utterly worthless players who will never see the court (which is certainly not true in Songaila's case). Toronto would effectively be paying the following for Griffin:

Year 1: $19M
Year 2: $13.5M
Year 3: $6M
Year 4: $7M
That's $45.5M over 4 years. Furthermore, the first 2 years of his next contract will be limited to around $14M a year. So figure no more than $73M over 6 years assuming Blake turns out to be worth a max contract when his rookie deal is over.

Bosh is going to cost:
Year 1: $15.7M
Year 2: $18M
Year 3: $20M
Year 4: $22M
Year 5: $24M
Year 6: $26M
That's $75M over the next 4 years and a total of $125M over 6 years.

[Dat2U]

I wouldn't dare trade the rights to Griffin for anyone not named Kevin Durant. Only a fool would be willing to pay $20 million per (Bosh) for what you can get for $5 million per (Griffin).

I've kinda soured on Bosh anyways. I'd bet he's injured. He looks slow and awkward. He's also got a bit of baggage with him. I don't want the Wizards to be the one paying him $20 mil per to break down and be a shell of his former self.

Now if the Wizards get the #3 pick or below, I might be willing to relook at Bosh (and especially Stoudamire), but even then giving up much more than a pick and some short term contracts would be too much.

Fans of Toronto & Phoenix need to realize that their teams aren't in a strong bargaining position. Bosh & Amare can walk the following offseason and leave their team with nothing. Both have injury concerns. Both want max contracts. That will give owners pause in this economy. It's not an ideal situation for any franchise to trade into.

[Jajwanda]

Could do something like Mike James+Etan Thomas for Eddy Curry to alleviate the luxury tax situation that's likely to occur this summer, included with that offcourse would be enough money to offset the total (8m or so) that the Wizards would have to pay in 2010 for Eddy Curry (a year where they probably will have the room to hold his contract).

All in all saves the Wizards, a healthy 6m for doing essentially nothing except promising themselves to not use the MLE in 2010-2011.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Could do something like Mike James+Etan Thomas for Eddy Curry to alleviate the luxury tax situation that's likely to occur this summer, included with that offcourse would be enough money to offset the total (8m or so) that the Wizards would have to pay in 2010 for Eddy Curry (a year where they probably will have the room to hold his contract).

All in all saves the Wizards, a healthy 6m for doing essentially nothing except promising themselves to not use the MLE in 2010-2011.

I don't think this is worth doing from the Wizards standpoint, although I can see why the Knicks would jump at it. It would save the Wiz about $3.3 million in salary, but would still leave them right at the luxury tax threshold (assuming the cap (and the lux tax threshold) doesn't move down this offseason. But they'd do it at the cost of adding a useless player for another year at $11.3 million. Plus, once they sign their pick, they're right back over the lux tax anyway. I'd rather bite the bullet and pay a bit more in 2009-10, and then have the increased flexibility that would come from the ending contracts of James and Thomas.

[Jajwanda]

I see your point however I don't think it adds up. The move would save 3.3m yes, and 6.6m in total cost. Yes they'd have another useless player but it would likely be almost an immediate buyout with Curry all paid for by the Knicks. Yes they're right over the luxury tax once they sign the pick you're right, however what's missing in the analysis is that that 6.6m remains. If you're a little bit over it's one thing but how much over is always the major question.

Also I don't agree that the flexibility in 2010 is that great of a thing to have since the MLE likely won't provide a good starter to a semi-rebuilding team. As long as the total cost for Washington remains under the luxury tax for 2010 the move could never burn them.

[nate33]

If Hollinger is right, the luxtax threshold in 2010/11 is going to be considerably lower than it is now. We already project to be in the luxtax in 2010/11 assuming we resign Haywood and DMac to reasonable contracts. What we need to do is dump one of Songaila or Stevenson to make sure that we have the breathing room to avoid the luxtax (otherwise, I fear Abe will let either Haywood or DMac walk). The last thing we need to do is add Eddy Curry's contract to the payroll.

Also, NY can't include the cash to pay Eddy's deal. The maximum cash a team can include in any trade is $3M. If teams could just send unlimited cash to one-another, then nobody would ever pay the luxtax. Teams would just send their crap contracts to under-the-cap teams along with cash to pay for it.

[Jajwanda]

Damn my mistake I didn't the cash considerations maximum was that low. I thought it was at least a few million higher. How low is the projection for the tax treshold in 2010?

[nate33]

Nobody knows for sure, but Hollinger guessed it could fall as low as $65M due to reduction in league revenues.

As it stands now, we have about $60.5M in obligations, ignoring the 2009 and 2010 draft pick, and ignoring Haywood, Pecherov and DMac. Haywood, the picks, and DMac will cost in the neighborhood of $12-16M. Even if the luxtax remains flat at $70M, we're going to have issues unless we dump one or both of DSong or Stevenson (or Blatche).

[eltacoman]

i read that Orlando was looking to trade into this years draft something like a late 1st or early 2nd is what they want ... they need some big man depth too soo maybe

Songlia + Pesh + 2009 2nd rd pick
for
Tony Battie expiring vet center

they could use songalia and pesh could help them too .. the draft pick is like 31-34 range


this could help us sign Haywood Dmac hope we do something like this instead of dealing our promising young guys or 1sts and Tony is 6'11 240 vet center we need a vet center right so we can just buy out etan or james

[LyricalRico]

i read that Orlando was looking to trade into this years draft something like a late 1st or early 2nd is what they want ... they need some big man depth too soo maybe

Songlia + Pesh + 2009 2nd rd pick
for
Tony Battie expiring vet center

they could use songalia and pesh could help them too .. the draft pick is like 31-34 range

[eltacoman]

do u think Grunfeld would be hesitant to deal within our division.... if we land Blake i hope we deal Songalia because he has been hot lately , he is way more tradable than Deshwan right now

the Spur are getting really old mybe the would like to get a lil younger

songalia + 2009 2nd pick
for
Kurt Thomas 38 f/c expiring
or
Bruce Bowen 39 expiring
it would be nice to have him as a player/coach for dmac & young i wonder if the spurs would trade him for song and high 2nd

[sportsnut99]

Assuming an extension is reached and the other players involved balance the money side of the deal, would you want Chris Bosh for that price?

[DaRealHibachi]

Nope...

Griffin looks like he has more upside... Plus Bosh is known for being soft, Griffin is just busting through guys like LeBron does...

You do the math...