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Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III)

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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1201 » by TheSecretWeapon » Thu Apr 9, 2009 3:29 pm

Dat2U wrote:
TheSecretWeapon wrote:Rico -- What you're talking about is unrealistic. The Spurs finding a backup who's almost as good as Duncan is not going to happen. Same with Parker. Same with Ginobili. I think Popovich has done a marvelous job of shaving minutes here and there, even sacrificing some regular season wins to give these guys more years on the back end of their careers.

The Ginobili thing is a false choice. How few minutes should he be playing? He got only 26.8 minutes per game this season. Roger Mason is getting 30. Michael Finley is getting 28.7. There's only so much a coach can protect a guy. At some point, he has to play.


What doomed Ginobili was not the minutes he got in San Antonio. It was all the additional wear and tear he got this past summer playing for Argentina in the Olympics.

In fact, its seems like the body simply wasn't made to play competitive basketball for 11 out of 12 months of the year. You need time to rest and recuperate and at Ginobili's age and penchant for being a bit fragile, it seems like it was only natural that he'd break down at some point.


My man Kevin Pelton took a look at the claim that guys who play international ball are more likely to be injured the following NBA season. His study used a pretty small sample size, but didn't find such an injury effect. http://www.82games.com/pelton25.htm
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1202 » by LyricalRico » Thu Apr 9, 2009 4:06 pm

So Shaq wants to play for Cuban, eh? Without looking at the numbers, I'm pretty sure that Howard+Stack+Williams for Shaq would work under the 125% rule. From the Mavs perspective, it's pretty much Howard for Shaq, which could be something they do if they also used their MLE on a guy like Ariza. They might even get Kidd to stay.

Shaq/Dampier
Nowitzki/Bass(?)
Ariza/George
Wright/Terry
Kidd/Barea

They'd be WAY over the luxury tax but their gains in size and defense would put them back into contention in the West IMO.

Phoenix gets a guy in Stack they can waive for immediate savings and Howard becomes their starting SF. If they don't like him, they can decline his option for 2010-11 and essentially make him an expiring contract.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1203 » by closg00 » Thu Apr 9, 2009 9:59 pm

Why should a team try to get into position to draft Thabeet when Sene was there in the D-League waiting to be plucked? That's exactly what the Knicks did and they won't have to pay him lotto money. Sene at-least can block shots at decent clip just like Thabeet.
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Kings Locked In On Eddie Jordan? 

Post#1204 » by toughjuice03 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:47 am

Kings Locked In On Eddie Jordan?
More Kings News



Apr 09, 2009 6:44 PM EST

Multiple sources say the Kings have all but eliminated the possibility of retaining interim coach Kenny Natt and have targeted Eddie Jordan to replace him.

Ettore Messina and David Blatt also have been mentioned as possibilities, but multiple league sources say the Kings are locked on Jordan.

It will be good for him to go back where he started his NBA coaching career.


I think it would be good for him to go back to Sacramento and I wish him nothing but luck. And please don't hesitate to merge if necessary.
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Re: Kings Locked In On Eddie Jordan? 

Post#1205 » by fishercob » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:50 am

IBTM: Discussing Other Teams' Moves...
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1206 » by closg00 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:23 pm

Scathing indictment of Allen Iverson:
Allen Iverson might be able to fool most everyone, but the so-called Answer is just a fraud.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9436 ... the-Answer
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1207 » by keynote » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:32 pm

closg00 wrote:Scathing indictment of Allen Iverson:
Allen Iverson might be able to fool most everyone, but the so-called Answer is just a fraud.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9436 ... the-Answer


Whitlock is an unimaginative, ham-fisted, talentless hack whose viability as a writer is solely based on his willingness to play the Armstrong Williams role in sports commentary.

Iverson may be worthy of criticism, but as per his usual, Whitlock brings nothing new or interesting the the table, other than silly collateral swipes at Tupac(?) and all things street, hip hop, etc. We get it: you prefer Luther Vandross. We also get that you're an idiot. Move on.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1208 » by doclinkin » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:03 pm

keynote wrote:
closg00 wrote:Scathing indictment of Allen Iverson:
Allen Iverson might be able to fool most everyone, but the so-called Answer is just a fraud.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9436 ... the-Answer


Whitlock is an unimaginative, ham-fisted, talentless hack whose viability as a writer is solely based on his willingness to play the Armstrong Williams role in sports commentary.

Iverson may be worthy of criticism, but as per his usual, Whitlock brings nothing new or interesting the the table, other than silly collateral swipes at Tupac(?) and all things street, hip hop, etc. We get it: you prefer Luther Vandross. We also get that you're an idiot. Move on.


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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1209 » by Ruzious » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:18 pm

Ooooh, Whitlock is so edgy. Street cred just oozes through his columns...

Anyway, I'm guessing this sets up a John Thompson interview of Whitlock - with Whitlock saying - "Oh, Mr. Thompson - I didn't mean any offense. I think Allen is a wonderful young chocolate man, and you did a tremendous job of teaching him." And John says, "Jason, you should be commended for your outstanding work."
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1210 » by closg00 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:18 pm

keynote wrote:
closg00 wrote:Scathing indictment of Allen Iverson:
Allen Iverson might be able to fool most everyone, but the so-called Answer is just a fraud.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9436 ... the-Answer


Whitlock is an unimaginative, ham-fisted, talentless hack whose viability as a writer is solely based on his willingness to play the Armstrong Williams role in sports commentary.

Iverson may be worthy of criticism, but as per his usual, Whitlock brings nothing new or interesting the the table, other than silly collateral swipes at Tupac(?) and all things street, hip hop, etc. We get it: you prefer Luther Vandross. We also get that you're an idiot. Move on.


I don't know Whitlock, but the content was spot-on about AI. On what points related to basketball did you disagree with Whitlock?
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1211 » by Ruzious » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:39 pm

closg00 wrote:I don't know Whitlock, but the content was spot-on about AI. On what points related to basketball did you disagree with Whitlock?

Whitlock had a point? I thought it was pretty much trash-talk... trash.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1212 » by LyricalRico » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:01 am

closg00 wrote:Why should a team try to get into position to draft Thabeet when Sene was there in the D-League waiting to be plucked? That's exactly what the Knicks did and they won't have to pay him lotto money. Sene at-least can block shots at decent clip just like Thabeet.
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... amed_sene/


Great point. I was going to post a Wiz-Knicks draft day scenario operating under the assumption that NY would be interested in Thabeet. But then I saw the Sene pickup and had the same thought you did.

Still, I wonder how big of a role a pure shot blocker who can't do much else will have on a D'Antoni coached team. You also have to consider that the Knicks don't have any bonafide #1 scoring options. Even if D'Antoni committed to playing a shot blocker, IMO they don't have the firepower on the wings to provide enough scoring to make up for a Sene/Lee frontcourt. They need a guy like LaFrentz was in his prime - a guy who can block shots and score 12-14ppg on open jumpshots.

See, this is why I wish we'd played Pecherov more this year. Maybe he would have shown enough to interest the Knicks (or someone else looking for a jumpshooting 4/5) in giving up something of value.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1213 » by keynote » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:44 am

closg00 wrote:I don't know Whitlock, but the content was spot-on about AI. On what points related to basketball did you disagree with Whitlock?


Whitlock's analysis of Iverson as a me-first player is nothing groundbreaking. Iverson's carried that tag around his entire career, and his recent quotes do little to dispel that rep. So, if Whitlock's column was merely a mediocre statement on AI's selfish play, I'd yawn and move on.

It's all the other Alan Keyesian crap that sticks in my craw. He goes through some tortuous reasoning to insert race into the discussion--for no apparent reason. He sets up a straw-man argument--namely, that AI has taken on some sort of mantle of leadership in the urban community--and then chides AI for failing to support a Black coach and mostly Black team in a Black city. He mentions AI's "tatts, swagger, and rap sheet," which frankly, is old news. He'd have mentioned the cornrows too, if AI hadn't cut 'em off recently. He claims that AI regarded Tupac as a role model--also, for no real apparent reason.

But, putting all of that aside, if his only flaw were his annoying predilection for inserting reactionary views on race relations and sports into his columns, he still wouldn't be my least favorite columnist. But just to top it off, Whitlock has the nerve to be a hack of a writer.

Example:
Whitlock wrote:Iverson is a one-man, no-country Army, more than likely the victim of a dysfunctional upbringing that left him incapable of embracing the concepts essential to teamwork, winning and sacrifice for the benefit of others.

We're a nation of Allen Iversons, and the unchecked Wall Street greed that has us on the brink of collapse is nothing more than our chickens coming home to rot.


First of all, he makes no attempt to make a link between AI's approach to basketball and our behavior as a nation. He just puts it out there, and keeps it moving.

Secondly: I'm sure he's proud of himself for paraphrasing Malcolm, but the re-worked quote doesn't even make sense. Whitlock is apparently trying to echo Malcolm's sentiments about people getting their just desserts. I get it. But why he changed the quote from "roost" to "rot"(!?) defies comprehension. Either way, the quote no longer means what he thinks it means. And more importantly, he doesn't bother to offer one scintilla of argument or support for that sweeping statement.

I wish this column were an anomaly, but it ain't. Whitlock is an intellectually lazy rabble-rouser who never bothers to actually lay out the foundation for a cogent argument. He all but presents his assumption as fact and moves on without looking back.

He's a terrible, terrible writer and, but for his cagey career move of cornering the "ornery Black conservative sports columnist" market a few years ago, he would've written himself out of gainful employment by now. He was already fired by ESPN; Is it any surprise that he ended up working for Fox?

I'll sum up with this: he's worse than Tom Knott.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1214 » by doclinkin » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:23 am

I'm with keynote. Whitlock is a pantload. A one-issue columnist with sloppy habits who thrives on being controversial, but rarely has anything new to say. Hence, irrelevant.

And way to kick a guy when he's injured. Basketball is entertainment, not a holy mission, Allen Iverson gave 100% on court of whatever he had everytime he was healthy, playing with injuries that would cripple a bloated slug like 'big sexy' jwhitlock. If he was less successful this year and had trouble facing injury and the inevitable decline of any player, well fine, no big deal if he sits or moves on with his life. But I don't think he has to serve as as symbol for anything or anybody. AI gave me my money's worth. He'll have football style injuries the rest of his life, he doesn't owe me anything more.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1215 » by TheSecretWeapon » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:05 pm

Whitlock wears a self-made asshat. That he's employed as an opinion columnist would be a sign of America's impending collapse if he weren't so unimportant.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1216 » by Dat2U » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:22 pm

keynote wrote:I wish this column were an anomaly, but it ain't. Whitlock is an intellectually lazy rabble-rouser who never bothers to actually lay out the foundation for a cogent argument. He all but presents his assumption as fact and moves on without looking back.

He's a terrible, terrible writer and, but for his cagey career move of cornering the "ornery Black conservative sports columnist" market a few years ago, he would've written himself out of gainful employment by now. He was already fired by ESPN; Is it any surprise that he ended up working for Fox?

I'll sum up with this: he's worse than Tom Knott.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Whitlock is scum of the earth. He's the same shmuck that exploited Sean Taylor's death and assassinated his character in the process to further his own nonsensical views.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1217 » by LyricalRico » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:34 pm

An article on the NY Knicks had this interesting tid-bit:

Shaquille O'Neal thinks he's going to New Orleans in a deal for Tyson Chandler. The Hornets are eager to move Chandler and would like Shaq's expiring contract.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... eason.html

Wow! That would really shake up the West IMO. It gives NO a true inside presence for the first time and should really take the pressure off David West inside. It can also get open shots for Peja and help the Hornets generate offense when Chris Paul is resting. I'd say that would put them past the Spurs, Nugges, and Rockets and maybe it brings them even with the Lakers if they don't re-sign Odom.

For Phoenix, it would certainly mean a return to the run-n-gun style of play. I would assume they would keep Nash so that he could feed Chandler easy baskets. This helps Amare in the middle and makes them an overall younger team.

For the numbers to work, it would have to be something like this:

Suns trade: Shaq
Hornets trade; Chandler, Daniels, and R.Butler

Man, I really like that for both teams.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1218 » by nate33 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:55 pm

LyricalRico wrote:An article on the NY Knicks had this interesting tid-bit:

Shaquille O'Neal thinks he's going to New Orleans in a deal for Tyson Chandler. The Hornets are eager to move Chandler and would like Shaq's expiring contract.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... eason.html

Wow! That would really shake up the West IMO. It gives NO a true inside presence for the first time and should really take the pressure off David West inside. It can also get open shots for Peja and help the Hornets generate offense when Chris Paul is resting. I'd say that would put them past the Spurs, Nugges, and Rockets and maybe it brings them even with the Lakers if they don't re-sign Odom.

For Phoenix, it would certainly mean a return to the run-n-gun style of play. I would assume they would keep Nash so that he could feed Chandler easy baskets. This helps Amare in the middle and makes them an overall younger team.

For the numbers to work, it would have to be something like this:

Suns trade: Shaq
Hornets trade; Chandler, Daniels, and R.Butler

Man, I really like that for both teams.

Meh, New Orleans' offense will no doubt improve, but their defense is going to get worse. Shaq can't guard the pick-and-roll and Peja can't guard anything.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1219 » by closg00 » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:23 am

The Jazz just recalled Koufos from the D-League. Instead of letting him rot on the bench getting zero PT, they sent him to the D-League for most of the season. Now that it's playoff-time, Koufos is in a better position to contribute to the team. I wish we had done the same with Pech the wasted years he's been with us.
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Re: Discussing Other Teams' Moves (Part III) 

Post#1220 » by keynote » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:40 pm

LyricalRico wrote:An article on the NY Knicks had this interesting tid-bit:

Shaquille O'Neal thinks he's going to New Orleans in a deal for Tyson Chandler. The Hornets are eager to move Chandler and would like Shaq's expiring contract.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... eason.html

Wow! That would really shake up the West IMO. It gives NO a true inside presence for the first time and should really take the pressure off David West inside. It can also get open shots for Peja and help the Hornets generate offense when Chris Paul is resting. I'd say that would put them past the Spurs, Nugges, and Rockets and maybe it brings them even with the Lakers if they don't re-sign Odom.

For Phoenix, it would certainly mean a return to the run-n-gun style of play. I would assume they would keep Nash so that he could feed Chandler easy baskets. This helps Amare in the middle and makes them an overall younger team.

For the numbers to work, it would have to be something like this:

Suns trade: Shaq
Hornets trade; Chandler, Daniels, and R.Butler

Man, I really like that for both teams.


I like it for PHX: Chandler would feast off of alley oops, just like he does in NO. But I don't like it as much for NO, except for financial purposes. In particular, I don't see NO being able to run the second unit's offense through Shaq: he's not going to get enough minutes for it to work. Shaq is going to play < 30 mpg (especially now that he'll be away from the PHX's medical shaman, and in the care of mortal doctors); meanwhile, Paul will average close to 40 mpg, especially if they don't address their needs at backup PG (where they happy with Daniels' production?).

And, I second Nate's concerns that Shaq will make them an even weaker team defensively.

But, financial benefits can often key otherwise questionable basketball decisions. So, it may happen anyway.
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